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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon ...
based on prior posts by developer1 the above comment doesn't serve any purpose other than trolling, similarly with their other recent post.
best ... khay |
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developer1
n00b
Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 49
Location: PL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | developer1,
Gentoo is not an operating system. Its a set of tools you use to build your own operating system.
If you have a private view of what an OS should be, Gentoo can help you achieve it. |
The thing is that I want OS to be configured and to behave the way I want it to and not the way someone thinks would be nice/usefull for me...... abd Gentoo is at no help here as its overcomplicated set of tools (as you name it).....
Its strange that I can fully customize any Linux, apart from Gentoo, easily. |
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xaviermiller
Bodhisattva
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 8708
Location: ~Brussels - Belgique
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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In don't trust you : Gentoo is a UNIX distribution, and is as easy to configure as the others : everthing is documented by manpages, wiki and this forum.
Please end trolling, you aren't stopping provide useless and trollesque posts.
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Kind regards,
Xavier Miller |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54216
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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developer1,
We have different definitions of "fully" and "customise", so there is really no basis for further discussion.
We can't even agree on the spelling for "customise".
Lets just agree to disagree and leave it there.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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developer1
n00b
Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 49
Location: PL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| XavierMiller wrote: | In don't trust you : Gentoo is a UNIX distribution, and is as easy to configure as the others : everthing is documented by manpages, wiki and this forum.
Please end trolling, you aren't stopping provide useless and trollesque posts. |
Maybe its well documented - so what? You dont make excellent product just by adding excellent (no irony here - Gentoo documentation is really excellent)) documentation to it......the thing is that emerge is almighty and its impossible to remember all the abbrevations which goes as a parameter. In fact one can get an impression that emerge is the only one command here. Its just overcomplicated. If it wasnt for manpages, it would be almost impossible to flawlessly administer Gentoo. Its no way of rememb ering all those meanings..... who the hell invented this? |
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kite14
Apprentice
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| developer1 wrote: | | The thing is that I want OS to be configured and to behave the way I want it to and not the way someone thinks would be nice/usefull for me .... |
For this very same reason I chose Gentoo over 10 years ago and I was never disappointed. It's the only distro I can set up exactly as I wish: no more useless application pulled in just by some weird dependency, no more unwanted functionality (my desktop doesn't need a Network Manager: the network is manually configured and automatically started at boot: try to do the same with a Ubuntu/Kubuntu/OpenSUSE/Fedora box...). Sure, it took me some time to do things right, but as you said the documentation is excellent and the Gentoo community on this forum is always willing to help.
| developer1 wrote: | | the thing is that emerge is almighty and its impossible to remember all the abbreviations which goes as a parameter. [...] If it wasn't for manpages, it would be almost impossible to flawlessly administer Gentoo. |
emerge is the core component of a Gentoo system: yes, it's powerful, but you are not required to know all the options by heart to administer a Gentoo box. Usually, it all boils down to: | Code: | # emerge --sync (or eix-sync)
# emerge -avuDN --with-bdeps y world
# emerge -av --depclean |
That's it. Run it at least once a week and you're all set. Remember to read emerge output, in case it asks to rebuild some package (# emerge @preserved-rebuild) |
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TomWij
Retired Dev
Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1553
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| developer1 wrote: | | the thing is that emerge is almighty and its impossible to remember all the abbrevations which goes as a parameter. |
If we are able to spot a misspelling with or without help, we are able to remember some of the abbreviations that go as a parameter; that's because there are two ways to do that, you either memorize them (which humans can do) or you use auto-completion (or in the case of spelling, a spell checker). Now, there's no use to memorizing them all because you often won't need them all at once; similarly, I never need the word "ortographobia" and you might need to look up that word as well, given that I've used it once and might use it twice in the future I start to remember it over time if I do need to use it more frequently. If you want another example for the auto-completion part, "hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia". Now, I really don't ever want to type out --hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia as a parameter; so, in this case if I ever need it more frequently it I'll use Bash completion or so to just hit something like --hi<tab>. I do however know that -a is --ask, -c is --depclean, -D is --deep, -h is --help, -N is --newuse, -p is --pretend, -u is --update and -v is --verbose and so on; those are easy to remember, as well as those are the ones you will need more often.
| developer1 wrote: | | If it wasnt for manpages, it would be almost impossible to flawlessly administer Gentoo. Its no way of rememb ering all those meanings..... who the hell invented this? |
It is similar to driving a car; it takes some remembering to remember how to drive it properly as well as administrate it, otherwise it stays still or crashes into a wall the next day. |
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hasufell
Retired Dev
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| gentoo is not for people who are too lazy to read docs or manpages. |
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SamuliSuominen
Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 2133
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| hasufell wrote: | | gentoo is not for people who are too lazy to read docs or manpages. |
like me?  |
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developer1
n00b
Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 49
Location: PL
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| hasufell wrote: | | gentoo is not for people who are too lazy to read docs or manpages. |
+ for that.....
this is the main argument 'for' why Gentoo should have closed user group, or should be available after payment only...... |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8935
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| developer1 wrote: | | this is the main argument 'for' why Gentoo should have closed user group, or should be available after payment only...... |
Basic reading comprehension should suffice. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| developer1 wrote: | | Its Gentoo and I have different view on what OS should be. |
Then, as others have pointed out in this and other threads, kindly stop trolling these forums, and take it somewhere else. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| ssuominen wrote: | | hasufell wrote: | | gentoo is not for people who are too lazy to read docs or manpages. |
like me? :P |
I'm willing to bet you've read quite a lot of udev, dbus and systemd docs/manpages by now.. ;-) |
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hasufell
Retired Dev
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| steveL wrote: | | ssuominen wrote: | | hasufell wrote: | | gentoo is not for people who are too lazy to read docs or manpages. |
like me? |
I'm willing to bet you've read quite a lot of udev, dbus and systemd docs/manpages by now..  |
don't listen to him, he knows the whole devmanual by heart |
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SamuliSuominen
Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 2133
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| hasufell wrote: | | steveL wrote: | | ssuominen wrote: | | hasufell wrote: | | gentoo is not for people who are too lazy to read docs or manpages. |
like me? |
I'm willing to bet you've read quite a lot of udev, dbus and systemd docs/manpages by now.. |
don't listen to him, he knows the whole devmanual by heart |
nod, I was only kidding, obviously
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| steveL wrote: | | Maybe we could encourage people to sponsor the devs they want to. A micropayment tip jar on bugzilla certainly might make some of them behave a little more graciously towards the raison d'etre for a distro: its users. |
Maybe we could also add Patreon pages for devs. That would allow multiple users to group around a developer to provide enough funding for full-time work: http://www.patreon.com/
Currently that is mostly used by artists, but there is no reason why it could not be used by developers, too. Just use monthly reports as the stuff you support. Or just pledge monthly.
All the help needed for that from Gentoo or Gentoo e.V. would be to offer a list list of the devs you can donate to.
Removed vestigial, spurious, quote tag. -- desultory
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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desultory
Bodhisattva
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| ArneBab wrote: | Maybe we could also add Patreon pages for devs. That would allow multiple users to group around a developer to provide enough funding for full-time work: http://www.patreon.com/
Currently that is mostly used by artists, but there is no reason why it could not be used by developers, too. Just use monthly reports as the stuff you support. Or just pledge monthly.
All the help needed for that from Gentoo or Gentoo e.V. would be to offer a list list of the devs you can donate to. |
Why involve the Gentoo Foundation or Gentoo e.V. in such a scenario? Unless it was an action by one, or both, of the organizations as a whole instead of a single developer being funded in their continuing efforts? If someone were seeking sponsorship for their efforts, whatever they are, it seems likely that they would advertise that fact on their own behalf. |
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | | ArneBab wrote: | Maybe we could also add Patreon pages for devs. That would allow multiple users to group around a developer to provide enough funding for full-time work: http://www.patreon.com/
Currently that is mostly used by artists, but there is no reason why it could not be used by developers, too. Just use monthly reports as the stuff you support. Or just pledge monthly.
All the help needed for that from Gentoo or Gentoo e.V. would be to offer a list list of the devs you can donate to. |
Why involve the Gentoo Foundation or Gentoo e.V. in such a scenario? Unless it was an action by one, or both, of the organizations as a whole instead of a single developer being funded in their continuing efforts? If someone were seeking sponsorship for their efforts, whatever they are, it seems likely that they would advertise that fact on their own behalf. |
Involving the Foundation or e.V. would allow developers to prove that they work on Gentoo. It would reduce the required amount of trust in the single developers, making it easier to involve casual users.
But it’s not required.
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ArneBab wrote: | | steveL wrote: | | Maybe we could encourage people to sponsor the devs they want to. A micropayment tip jar on bugzilla certainly might make some of them behave a little more graciously towards the raison d'etre for a distro: its users. |
Maybe we could also add Patreon pages for devs. That would allow multiple users to group around a developer to provide enough funding for full-time work: http://www.patreon.com/ |
Yeah that's a nice site; I like that it is art-based which means it's all about the work.
Hmm as usual the terms are very much loaded in the site's favour. *sigh* it would be nice if we could have sites along the lines of ddg that don't want to tie us down. (Yes, this is a general moan, sorry.) |
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| steveL wrote: | | ArneBab wrote: | | steveL wrote: | | Maybe we could encourage people to sponsor the devs they want to. A micropayment tip jar on bugzilla certainly might make some of them behave a little more graciously towards the raison d'etre for a distro: its users. |
Maybe we could also add Patreon pages for devs. That would allow multiple users to group around a developer to provide enough funding for full-time work: http://www.patreon.com/ |
Yeah that's a nice site; I like that it is art-based which means it's all about the work.
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I think it should also work well with development reports from developers - or just monthly subscriptions for developers who work on a clear schedule (part-time or full-time).
It’s also nice that there can be different levels of support.
Examples:
- 3€ per release with at most 5€ per month (needs 2 releases per month and 1000 supporters to be able to work full-time).
- 1€ per month (needs 5k supporters for full-time work)
- 100€ per release with the option to vote on the next feature plan after each release to select the feature which will definitely be in the next release (50 such users and a developer can pay basic needs). The developer could provide a list of things he or she would like to realize and hold a condorcet voting among these special supporters to select one which is a blocker for the next release.
| steveL wrote: |
Hmm as usual the terms are very much loaded in the site's favour. *sigh* it would be nice if we could have sites along the lines of ddg that don't want to tie us down. (Yes, this is a general moan, sorry.) |
*sigh* and there I thought I could for once avoid reading greyed out text in tiny letters…
For some reasons creating an innovative and disruptive service seems to go along with trying to ***** the users ☹ - our society is seriously off when that helps making money ☹
Strangely that is the opposite of what artists on Patreon do: They give the users information, keep in contact, give them extras and so on.
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| ArneBab wrote: | | For some reasons creating an innovative and disruptive service seems to go along with trying to ***** the users ☹ - our society is seriously off when that helps making money ☹ |
Well we do live in a kleptocracy.
| Quote: | | Strangely that is the opposite of what artists on Patreon do: They give the users information, keep in contact, give them extras and so on. |
Yeah I'm sure; that's the trouble with the "Web-2.0" way of doing things. Much like the rest of the setup, it uses people's inherent
decency, in order to rip them off. |
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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I just posted an update to the starting post: ‘The goal of this post is to allow people who already to great work to do their work in full time with the knowledge that they are funded by the users, so they can be confident that they will not hurt their income by doing what is right for the regular home user. The intention is not to turn Gentoo developers into code-slaves of the users but to empower the developers to work full-time on the things they consider as important for Gentoo. This update is in response to the discussion being bogged down by questions of “how do we ensure that the developers do what we want” instead of discussing how we can reach enough users.’
I decided to do that, because I’m linking to this discussion in several places. I consider it as exemplary for a tendency which hinders Free Software development and makes it serve companies instead of regular users (because for most people that’s the only way to earn a decent salary by working on the stuff they love).
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Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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