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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re-thinking my XFCE desktop Reply with quote

I like the XFCE "shell":

* compositing window manager
* panel w/ systray and applets
* root menu + settings apps

I like the functional style, but I don't need or care for anything else. I have consolekit disabled. Now that XFCE seems to be sliding inexorably towards the madness of GTK+-3/systemd/f.d.o, I am looking for alternatives.

Any suggestions?
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PaulBredbury
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got any links to back up the "madness" as you call it?

I'm using XFCE 4.11 (reasonably recent git checkouts) OK. Had to get rid of enforced 96DPI, that's all.
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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XFCE already relies on consolekit for supporting shutdown/reboot/etc. If you don't have this compiled in, those options are grayed out in the picker. They also announced their intentions to migrate to GTK+-3 a long time ago (e.g., their roadmap).

The discussion of why I think *kit, GTK+-3, and associated technologies are madness I'll leave for another thread.
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PaulBredbury
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I have no problem in just logging out of XFCE (and thus xorg), and then pressing my power button which uses acpid's /etc/acpi/handler.sh to run a shutdown script ;)

What are your special requirements? Something stopping you from just switching to LXDE?
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i rock alt+f2 sudo halt run.... i also rock some desktop lock icons.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was running xfce, I wasn't running *kit, and just started xfce with startx.

That is alway an option, that way when you stop you're at the command line and can shutdown or reboot easily.
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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

* I prefer hibernation to quitting XFCE -- I often have many windows open on my laptop.

* Indeed, I use a sudo + script setup to effect changes in power state without consolekit installed. I invoke them with custom key combinations.

My fear is that certain GNOMEisms will be come mandatory dependencies for XFCE, and I will no longer be able to use workarounds as above. I want to get ahead of the curve with alternatives.

LXDE does looks interesting, but that too is in flux as they migrate from GTK+-2 to Razor-Qt.

I guess there's always FVWM2 ...
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Clad in Sky
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MATE?

I haven't read their roadmap, so I don't know if they're moving to sysd, and since it is based on Gnome 2 you might not like it.
Then there's enlightenment.
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sk3l
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been considering migrating off of KDE; the KMail/Akonadi fiasco has left a bad taste in my mouth. That said, I prefer Qt over GTK, so one DE that caught my eye was Razor-Qt. However, it appears that now Razor-Qt development has been frozen, and the project is being folded into LXDE (think they might call it lxqt). Last week I cloned the latest lxqt from git, but they are experiencing some growing pains, and their build system is beyond fugged, you have to build each individual module separately, but even then their cmake dependencies are busted up bad. Maybe we have something better for lxqt in an overlay or something, but I might just wait to let things solidify a bit longer. I will want to see the finished product, because the concept, a light-weight Qt DE, is attractive to me.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol: Hi, please, take this with a grain of salt :twisted:

Well, this is a recurrent story :lol:. There have always been the same players, since it all started. XFCE, Kde and Gnome (the three big desktops) are more or less from the same era. They are still there, and they are getting fatter as RAM sticks (and user exigences) grow. Other than that, nothing really breathtaking has changed, at least not for me. I use kde from time to time, but when I actually need to get the job done I use openbox or something similar. You know... something that can "manage windows", but I digress...

The key point here is that projects grow in size as time goes by, users ask for features, and other elements in the ecosystem become fatter (libraries, dependencies, auxiliary applications).

The requirements (functionality wise) for one of these environments are far beyond what they were a decade ago. The problems seems to be that the users do not have a true memory of the way they used to work a decade ago. They think they desktops are just getting fatter because Mr. KDE and Mr. Gnome like to sit there eating potatoes and drinking beer or something while they chat with each other about their widgets and .desktop files :lol:

If you don't want to go mainstream there's really not much choice if you ask me, and there isn't possibility for any more choice, because developing on of these behemoths is a project that takes years.

LXDE is mature enough, but let's face it, it's just a group of applications that someone else thinks you should run together. If you want openbox as your WM you are probably going to change most of the defaults of lxde, and half of the applications will be of no use to you. Some of the config tools they wrote are nice though.

Razor is interesting. I wonder whether it will ever be stable enough or when lxqt will become true. I keep an eye on that one. Though I still haven't any idea on what to do with a desktop environment...

About e17... well. It's "the eternal project". It's nice. But they always seemed to be interested only in the road, not the goal, which doesn't help much the final user unless s/he's just interested in toying with nice things (they have been probably bored for so long since all that beryl/compiz stuff went away).

What I want to say is that, most of what exists, already existed in some form in late 90's (except for razorqt). That's to give you an idea on what you can expect on the next 20 years, that is, more kde and gnome versions (bulkier ones probably), and lots of maintenance patches for the around-50-wm's that are alive and in good shape (and will continue to do so, but with very little changes, which is what prevents them from becoming fat uberlords of the underdark like kde or gnome).

Finally, if you want something resembling a desktop which has been working at least for a couple of decades justs use IceWM or FVWM.
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xaviermiller
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Razorqt is really stable and light. I use it for months (more than 1 year, I think).

No *kit, no upower are forced, you can have a really light desktop machine.

Even on my new i5 laptop, I use it :)
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steveL
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might try Dominique's recent excellent post on FVWM-Crystal.
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