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notageek
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:56 am    Post subject: Colorado marihuana firms beg for banking. Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26248396
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could've sworn I posted this, but can't find it, so here it is.

Banks Say No to Marijuana Money, Legal or Not
Quote:
SEATTLE — In his second-floor office above a hair salon in north Seattle, Ryan Kunkel is seated on a couch placing $1,000 bricks of cash — dozens of them — in a rumpled brown paper bag. When he finishes, he stashes the money in the trunk of his BMW and sets off on an adrenalized drive downtown, darting through traffic and nervously checking to see if anyone is following him.

Despite the air of criminality, there is nothing illicit in what Mr. Kunkel is doing. He co-owns five medical marijuana dispensaries, and on this day he is heading to the Washington State Department of Revenue to commit the ultimate in law-abiding acts: paying taxes. After about 25 minutes at the agency, Mr. Kunkel emerges with a receipt for $51,321.

“Carrying such large amounts of cash is a terrible risk that freaks me out a bit because there is the fear in my mind that the next car pulling up beside me could be the crew that hijacks us,” he said. “So, we have to play this never-ending shell game of different cars, different routes, different dates and different times.”

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, things have slightly changed, pjp. However, until federal law changes, any responsible bank will avoid ganja green.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I know. The article was from January (before things slightly changed).
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The feds have given the banks the go-ahead to accept the money, however it is not solid enough for the banks. The banks have an obligation to report suspicious activity on pot related accounts and its probably not clear to them what that means. They probably suspect a lot of hassle from various agencies as well. So they are still not taking the money.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_25143792/feds-give-historic-green-light-banks-working-marijuana
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Well, things have slightly changed, pjp. However, until federal law changes, any responsible bank will avoid ganja green.


even if the fed clarifies its position, I think they will still be scared, and rightly so. Who knows if the feds will change their mind on a whim and all of the sudden banks could be charged with money laundering.

I wonder if there is money to be made here. of course, if banks don't lend, others will - for a higher price.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruling by fiat does put a damper on the economic activity (all activities actually) of those who attempt to respect the law ...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Who knows if the feds will change their mind on a whim
Good ol'e Regime Uncertainty.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
juniper wrote:
Who knows if the feds will change their mind on a whim
Good ol'e Regime Uncertainty.


indeed. bummer.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so they just have to set up their own, small, Colorad-only bank?

What is the problem? Even German sugar beet planters could do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_union
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
so they just have to set up their own, small, Colorad-only bank?

What is the problem? Even German sugar beet planters could do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_union


I don't know if its as simple as that legally. It would still be subject to federal regulations through the tax code I would think, need FDIC insurance and so forth.

The feds have given the banks the go ahead, but the laws are still on the books and therefore it is incredibly risky for any bank to take the money. Their credit union could simply be raided one day.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

porodzila wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
so they just have to set up their own, small, Colorad-only bank?

What is the problem? Even German sugar beet planters could do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_union


I don't know if its as simple as that legally. It would still be subject to federal regulations through the tax code I would think, need FDIC insurance and so forth.

The feds have given the banks the go ahead, but the laws are still on the books and therefore it is incredibly risky for any bank to take the money. Their credit union could simply be raided one day.


As long as the bank allows no interstate transactions at all, they are not bound to any Federal regulation. I used to live in Colorado, and there was a Credit Union that did just that, it did not allow any access to your money from out of State. It was only regulated by State Law, and did not follow Federal Law. Feds can only regulate that which takes place across State Borders. Not sure if that Credit Union exists anymore, but it was made for Indian banking as far as I know... and it was located on or near a reservation.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockIsland wrote:
Feds can only regulate that which takes place across State Borders. Not sure if that Credit Union exists anymore, but it was made for Indian banking as far as I know... and it was located on or near a reservation.


If it was on a reservation that is why they were not subject to those regulations. The regulations I'm talking about are tax related, like paying tax on money gained from something illegal. and FDIC was created to keep little banks insured from running out of cash. The feds do regulate some things that are only "inside states". Insurance is another example.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

porodzila wrote:
RockIsland wrote:
Feds can only regulate that which takes place across State Borders. Not sure if that Credit Union exists anymore, but it was made for Indian banking as far as I know... and it was located on or near a reservation.


If it was on a reservation that is why they were not subject to those regulations. The regulations I'm talking about are tax related, like paying tax on money gained from something illegal. and FDIC was created to keep little banks insured from running out of cash. The feds do regulate some things that are only "inside states". Insurance is another example.


According to something I was just reading, banks that are local only can choose to use the State Regulator rather than the Federal Regulator because the FDIC is way too onerous and has a one size fits all approach to its regulation requirements that take too many employee away from their actual jobs just to meet the FDIC compliance standards. I guess that's more of what I was thinking of.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eventually someone will take a bank to court under a discrimination law. The banks are effectively stopping the companies from doing legal business and acting like a cartel. Ironic that!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCracken wrote:
Eventually someone will take a bank to court under a discrimination law. The banks are effectively stopping the companies from doing legal business and acting like a cartel. Ironic that!
The banks fall under federal regulation. Marijuana remains federally illegal. Federal law would need to change, or be overturned by SCOTUS. I don't believe SCOTUS will hear such a case when congress hasn't addressed the issue.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Butts McCracken wrote:
Eventually someone will take a bank to court under a discrimination law. The banks are effectively stopping the companies from doing legal business and acting like a cartel. Ironic that!
The banks fall under federal regulation. Marijuana remains federally illegal. Federal law would need to change, or be overturned by SCOTUS. I don't believe SCOTUS will hear such a case when congress hasn't addressed the issue.
Well that's fucked up. How can anyone be expected to know where they stand with 2 different laws?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCracken wrote:
Well that's fucked up. How can anyone be expected to know where they stand with 2 different laws?
That's why many of us dislike the encroachment of the federal government into state's rights. In this case, federal banks, federal law, it seems pretty clear to me. Until the law is unambiguous, federal agents can apply the law. So any bank (unless there's a way to do it at a state level) isn't likely going to take the risk. Maybe there's an entrepreneur who might be willing to look for the loophole.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Butts McCracken wrote:
Well that's fucked up. How can anyone be expected to know where they stand with 2 different laws?
That's why many of us dislike the encroachment of the federal government into state's rights. In this case, federal banks, federal law, it seems pretty clear to me. Until the law is unambiguous, federal agents can apply the law. So any bank (unless there's a way to do it at a state level) isn't likely going to take the risk. Maybe there's an entrepreneur who might be willing to look for the loophole.
It's the other way around, the state laws should be scrapped and just have the federal law. One law for all no matter what state you are in.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why you still have a monarch.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
That's why you still have a monarch.
What does that have to do with it? Getting rid of the state laws would create a totally even and fair system. There would be no rule for one person but if you step over an arbitrary line there would be another rule for another. Everyone would know where they stand no matter what area of the country they come from.

I fail to see what a monarch has to do with that?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That you fail to see what having a monarch has to do with it helps demonstrate the point. State's Rights. That's a core principle on which the US was founded.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are interested in why State rights are an important concept in American politics, you would want to understand the Federalist Papers (which are foundational arguments for the ratification of the Constitution) and the Anti-Federalist Papers (which were opposed, instead supporting the Articles of Confederation).

Incidentally, taking out the racial baggage associated with slavery and its status as the principle issue over which the American Civil War was fought, you could have a better understanding of how important state rights are in American politics. Slavery was considered to be a state right and abolitionists were trying to ban the entire process through federal legislation. So now, because of that, we have an erroneous historical precedent that state's rights supporters are inherently racist (like the supremacist type of racist).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCracken wrote:
pjp wrote:
That's why you still have a monarch.
What does that have to do with it? Getting rid of the state laws would create a totally even and fair system. There would be no rule for one person but if you step over an arbitrary line there would be another rule for another. Everyone would know where they stand no matter what area of the country they come from.

I fail to see what a monarch has to do with that?


Let's play OTW Jeopardy

Quote:
1. Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.


Now, remind us why the various state members of the EU failed to ratify a constitution.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCracken wrote:
pjp wrote:
That's why you still have a monarch.
What does that have to do with it? Getting rid of the state laws would create a totally even and fair system. There would be no rule for one person but if you step over an arbitrary line there would be another rule for another. Everyone would know where they stand no matter what area of the country they come from.

I fail to see what a monarch has to do with that?


When a law, or improvement to a law, is good and actually does what its supposed to the other states mostly catch on. Besides you have complete freedom to move to where to law suits you. Unlike other places the poor are not stuck in one place. If one state fails there will be a migration to a successful one. Happens all the time. They follow the work.

Its not all chaos and madness. That's what happens when an entire nation shuts down because of one centralized screw up.

I'd much rather fly a multi engine aircraft than one with one highly explosive rocket.
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