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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Half my KDE packages not upgraded Reply with quote

Hi,

I guess whatever-this-is happened a little while ago, but I only noticed now. I used to use kdebase-startkde as my 'anchor' package to pull in the basic KDE environment, but a few versions ago I got the impression that this was not a well-supported way to go, so I added kdebase-meta which only added a couple of packages to what I already had installed.

I just got finished upgrading 4.12.0 to 4.12.1, and I did the 4.11.something to 4.12.0 a couple of weeks ago.

What I've just noticed (on running emerge --depclean, because it wants to remove them all) is that loads of packages are still at 4.11.5, so my setup has probably been very, er, mixed for some time...!

Here's what's currently installed but outdated out of kde-base right now:
Code:
happy ~ # emerge -avu `qlist -IC kde-base/`

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies  ..... ... done!
[ebuild     U  ] media-libs/libraw-0.16.0_beta1-r1:0/10 [0.15.4:0/9] USE="jpeg lcms openmp -demosaic -examples -jpeg2k (-static-libs%)" ABI_X86="(64%*) -32% (-x32)" 1,440 kB
[ebuild     U  ] app-office/akonadi-server-1.11.0 [1.10.2-r1] USE="mysql qt4 sqlite -postgres (-qt5) {-test}" 230 kB
[ebuild   R    ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.12.1:4/4.12  USE="acl alsa bzip2 fam handbook lzma mmx nls opengl (policykit) semantic-desktop* spell sse sse2 ssl udev udisks upower -3dnow (-altivec) (-aqua) -debug -doc -jpeg2k -kerberos -openexr {-test} -zeroconf" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/nepomuk-core-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="exif ffmpeg pdf (-aqua) -debug -epub -taglib" 372 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/nepomuk-widgets-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 48 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/libkexiv2-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.2:4/4] USE="xmp (-aqua) -debug" 133 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/freespacenotifier-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 13,394 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kde-base-artwork-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua)" 7,246 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kdebase-cursors-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua)" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="handbook ldap (-aqua) -debug -prison {-test}" 2,696 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kinfocenter-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="handbook opengl (-aqua) -debug -ieee1394" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/ksystraycmd-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kwrited-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/libkdcraw-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 98 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/qguiplatformplugin_kde-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1-r1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kmix-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="alsa handbook (-aqua) -canberra -debug -pulseaudio" 372 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/nepomuk-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="handbook (-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kscreensaver-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kstyles-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/powerdevil-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="pm-utils (-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/drkonqi-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/thumbnailers-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 41 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/klipper-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="handbook (-aqua) -debug -prison" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kmenuedit-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="handbook (-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/nsplugins-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/solid-actions-kcm-4.11.5:4/4.11 [4.11.1:4/4] USE="(-aqua) -debug" 0 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kdeplasma-addons-4.12.1:4/4.12 [4.11.2-r1:4/4] USE="exif (-aqua) -attica -debug -desktopglobe -fcitx -ibus -json -oauth -qalculate -qwt -scim -semantic-desktop" 1,718 kB
[ebuild     U  ] kde-base/kdebase-meta-4.12.1:4 [4.11.1:4] USE="wallpapers (-aqua)" 0 kB

Total: 28 packages (27 upgrades, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 27,781 kB

The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.12.1
# required by kde-base/drkonqi-4.12.1
# required by kde-base/drkonqi (argument)
>=kde-base/kdelibs-4.12.1 semantic-desktop


How did this happen? Do all these packages need to be added to world individually now? Seems improbable given some quite key stuff in there...

Thanks in advance.
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franzf
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-981106-highlight-kde.html
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi franzf, thanks for the reply. I was aware that the dev effort is on kde5 now, but this doesn't really answer my question.

That list of upgrades above is all stuff that I'm accustomed to being pulled in by a corresponding upgrade to kdebase-startkde or kdebase-meta. That no longer happens, which leaves all those packages silently ignored. They might not be feature releases, but they should still be upgraded, no?

So is there now no metapackage that actually ensures these get upgraded?
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franzf
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything that falls into "kde4 workspace" - plasma, kwin, ... - will stay at 4.11.x. So there will be a day you get a kwin-4.11.10 or the like. As I mentioned in the other thread this will happen until August 2015 (Long term support).
Anything else - apps, games, pim, ... - will get minor (aka feature) updates. 4.12, 4.13, ...
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So can I infer that the answer to my question is "no", and I therefore need to add all the above packages individually to world if I want to keep them up-to-date?
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franzf
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q: So is there now no metapackage that actually ensures these get upgraded?
A: There is nothing like e.g. kwin-4.12.0. All those kde-workspace packages will stay at 4.11.x. Your 4.11.5 is the most recent version, so you are up2date already - nothing to add to world file.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a feature!

Code:
$ equery l -iop kwin
 * Searching for kwin ...
[-P-] [  ] kde-base/kwin-4.11.2:4/4.11
[IP-] [  ] kde-base/kwin-4.11.5:4


[/thread]

;)
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you say that I'm up to date when all the above are not? They may not be of critical importance, but why should they not be updated?
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asturm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, now I see your problem. Well, for one thing, your system seems to be out of shape a bit - pay attention to this:

Code:
The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.12.1
# required by kde-base/drkonqi-4.12.1
# required by kde-base/drkonqi (argument)
>=kde-base/kdelibs-4.12.1 semantic-desktop


Solve this, and any other thing that portage is already giving you a helping hand for, and then try again - I see no reason why your KDE packages wouldn't get updated.
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I did some examining of ebuilds and I think I see what's going on now.

1. kdebase-startkde is still on 4.11.5 (along with many other packages, as you mention).

2. kdebase-meta-4.12.1 changed its RDEPENDs for the packages that haven't gone above 4.11, so for example in kdebase-meta-4.11.5.ebuild you had
Code:
        $(add_kdebase_dep kwin)

but in 4.12.1 it's now
Code:
        $(add_kdebase_dep kwin '' 4.11)


The effect of this seems to be that it's happy with any 4.11.* version of those packages, and doesn't bump them automatically to their latest versions. This does strike me as wrong behaviour, as whether the 4.11.* updates are "important" or not, most people do expect the meta-ebuild to keep all its sub-packages as up-to-date as possible.

The -4.12.1 packages in the list above are harder to explain. It does appear they weren't ever in the DEPENDs for kdebase-meta or kdebase-startkde (I thought perhaps they'd been dropped in a recent ebuild but apparently they were never there). I can only think that I had added them to my world file, but somehow lost them from there, or maybe some other package had previously pulled them in but no longer does. It's a smaller number anyway so I'm less concerned about adding them manually.

(As for the package.use problem, I've had USE=semantic-desktop disabled for a long time so drkonqi and kdepimlibs shouldn't even be pulled in, I've no idea why they're installed to begin with.)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havin_it wrote:
(As for the package.use problem, I've had USE=semantic-desktop disabled for a long time so drkonqi and kdepimlibs shouldn't even be pulled in, I've no idea why they're installed to begin with.)

The USE flag was completely or mostly removed I think for a while, but it was restored for some packages. Or at least that's how I seem to remember things unveiling.

However, here it is being required by kdelibs, nepomuk, and other friends. It is possible to keep those away, but it does require some sacrifices. ^^;
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asturm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havin_it wrote:
The effect of this seems to be that it's happy with any 4.11.* version of those packages, and doesn't bump them automatically to their latest versions. This does strike me as wrong behaviour, as whether the 4.11.* updates are "important" or not, most people do expect the meta-ebuild to keep all its sub-packages as up-to-date as possible.

No. It works for everyone else.

Read:
Quote:
The following USE changes are necessary to proceed

Ebuilds, dependencies, USE flags change, no matter what you have set in package.use at some point in time. Sometimes you need to adapt.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO kde-4.11.1 was the last gentoo kde release that forced semantic desktop on everyone. It was then when drkonqi, nepomuk etc. got installed on your system. Start with uninstalling kdepimlibs, drkonqi, nepomuk-core, nepomuk-widgets and nepomuk.
Then run another emerge -uDNavt @world to see if things changed.
For reference: it is kdebase-runtime-meta that pulls in nepomuk and drkonqi depending on its semantic-desktop USE-Flag.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
Havin_it wrote:
The effect of this seems to be that it's happy with any 4.11.* version of those packages, and doesn't bump them automatically to their latest versions. This does strike me as wrong behaviour, as whether the 4.11.* updates are "important" or not, most people do expect the meta-ebuild to keep all its sub-packages as up-to-date as possible.

No. It works for everyone else.


What works? That everyone else *does* get those 4.11 package upgrades via a metapackage in world, or that their system works fine without them? Sorry if I seemed confrontational in any of this but I just don't get it. If you're saying that by having kdebase-meta in world, I should be getting those upgrades to the 4.11 packages, then the question remains why I am not.

genstorm wrote:
Read:
Quote:
The following USE changes are necessary to proceed

Ebuilds, dependencies, USE flags change, no matter what you have set in package.use at some point in time. Sometimes you need to adapt.


Bear in mind that that output is from a request to upgrade all the kde-base packages I currently have installed (that's what the qlist backticked expression gives); a world update command doesn't make these demands. It's only because, with that command (which was for illustrative purposes only) I'm asking to upgrade packages that I actually don't need any more. franzf's post just above this one seems to explain quite clearly why that's the case: semantic-desktop has gone away again so those packages are no longer pulled in. (Perhaps I should have used --nodeps so as not to muddy the waters of what I was showing with that code-block.)

EDIT: I've already done the emerge -NuD @world, so what I'll now do is emerge --depclean (which is what I was about to do when this all came to light) to get rid of nepomuk and whatever else is not mandated. That may make the situation clearer ;)
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asturm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havin_it wrote:
What works? That everyone else *does* get those 4.11 package upgrades via a metapackage in world, or that their system works fine without them? Sorry if I seemed confrontational in any of this but I just don't get it. If you're saying that by having kdebase-meta in world, I should be getting those upgrades to the 4.11 packages, then the question remains why I am not.

I don't have any kde-base/* package in world, but I am using my own sets. We'll see how 4.11.6 comes up when it's getting unmasked, 4.11.3 and 4.11.5 at least were updated without trouble. Have you found out more already?

EDIT: 4.11.6 was emerged just naturally alongside 4.12.2.
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