When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?

Shamus397 · Apprentice Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Ur-th

@yagami: I think you're missing the point. This isn't about Red Hat, or making money, or any of that. The point is that LP is forcing his way upon everyone else. Is he the devil? Of course not. But he should not be shaping the course of userland for all of Linux, and that's exactly what he and his followers are attempting to do. Ignoring what is happening is not an option, at least for anyone who cares about actually *having* the right not to have a bunch of fanatics determine what Linux is or isn't.

The unfortunate reality of the situation is that politics has and is shaping the debate, and on this front, it would seem that LP & Co. have won; just look at Debian and the false dichotomy they pushed there between systemd and upstart. If things had stayed on a strictly technical level, systemd wouldn't even have been a blip on anyone's radar and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Guess who pushed the politics?

yagami · Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject:

Its not good that systemd is being on big monolitic piece of software that does everything.

BUT ITS UNDERSTANDABLE ! ... linux is monolitic for a reason, and as i am a programmer, and i try to follow the "best practices rules", I KNOW that sometimes making everything loose couple and modular can really increase complexity and work ( and bugs ).
Systemd really has some nice features. PERIOD.
As someone said and i think its trully correct, systemd will go the patch of pulseaudio ... wait until version 4 and a new mantainer and then it will start to work as intended.

Shamus, i dont think that LP is forcing his way upon everyone else. I trully believe that Gentoo and Debian would not let themselves be forced that way. For "his followers" ... its their problem. I never liked "religious movements". They will try to determine what Linux is but they will never get it right. I see every day so much crap about linux and people spilling so much bullsh$t, talking like if they used it from the beggining and know all about it.

saellaven: Also, as long as its open source, the linux spirit will never die. But as long as people say things like that, its already dead. Dont play politics, dont curse the company, dont be a victim: dont like systemd -> dont use it.

if "Systemd takes over the world and is king" ? make a new linux with another init. be a rebel. be free. BUT dont go : "evil guy is trying to make a living and say good things about its software. and hey , its selling pretty well ! he is killing the spirit of linux !"

It isnt LP that is wrong ... no, HE IS THE SPIRIT OF LINUX. He is using his own right and freedom to scratch his own itch. Its the others, the Upstart and openRC that are failing by not keeping up and not putting a good fight ( and now the poor upstart devs

didnt deserve that fate ).

You guys seem like all the others that insulted and spoutted crap on LINUS for linux not being a micro kernel. So what its monolitic ? so what it has bugs ? LP is a human being.

--------------------

For me ... perfect would be 50 distros using sysvinit, 50 distros using openrc, 50 distros using upstart and 50 distros using systemd.
Unfortunatly, seems sysvinit, openrc, upstart are dying... its not systemd's fault. ( except in case of ubuntu -> systemd case, since it was because of a debian committe decision , but that is debian / mark's fault, not LP).

Bottom line: I see this as evolution as in nature. And i trully believe that maybe systemd is a mistake and that distros will change again. But that is the way of nature and open source.

In no way i believe that LP is doing things in "back deals and covert deals".

saellaven · l33t Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 646

depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3509

yagami · Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject:

saellaven · l33t Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 646

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject:

yagami · Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject:

saellaven ... ok , this has been long ... i understand that you might feel that way , but its not my opinion also.

anon-e-moose ... yes , good old days ... but at the same time ... not so good

let me not recall xfree.

borland ... yep builder c++ ( or what it was called ).

it might be easier to fix systemd... or might be easier to enchance openrc ... but what is funnier ? this is all about funtoo ? right ?

( i made a pun

)

Shamus397 · Apprentice Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Ur-th

@yagami: LP is the "Spirit of Linux"? You've GOT to be joking. This is the man who brought us the disaster that is PulseAudio, a solution that was in need of a problem.

Systemd is not evolution, it's a putsch. This is a small group pushing their agenda on everyone. You can say they're not pushing it on anyone but the facts speak for themselves (*cough*Debian*cough*).

OpenRC is not dying, it's actively maintained and it works well!

You're entitled to your opinion, just don't expect everyone to agree with it, especially if you're trying to reform LP's image. If LP's image is tarnished, it because the person that has done the most damage to his reputation is LP himself. Also, you're never going to convince anyone that what LP is doing is simply "scratching an itch". If that were true, there would be no discussion, there would be no politics, and this would be a non-issue.

You like systemd, we get it. Not everyone agrees with you, do you get that?

yagami · Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject:

ArneBab · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject:

steveL · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject:

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject:

steveL, qnikst's blog about this is at http://qnikst.github.io/posts/2013-11-06-openrc-supervision.html

From that blog

steveL · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:51 pm Post subject:

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:24 pm Post subject:

https://github.com/qnikst/openrc/tree/s-vision
or
https://github.com/qnikst/openrc/archive/s-vision.zip for the zip file
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depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3509

I'm not sure what you're saying, other than that OpenRC appears to have a life outside of Gentoo.

It's also interesting to see that he has removed networking from OpenRC, and presumably not just by moving it to netifrc. On other threads here in the Gentoo forums I see people starting their networking without the Gentoo scripts, notably using expanded capabilities of dhcpcd, also by the same author.

1 - Does anyone have a take on using dhcpcd instead of netifrc to start networking? (According to one thread, you can also do static IP using dhcpcd.)

2 - Has anyone tried to resubmit the "separate /usr" patch to OpenRC?

3 - Earlier in this thread there appeared to be a patch submitted 2 years ago by L.P. which appeared to maee it easier to track/managed daemons, perhaps not by PID 1. Daemon management has been cited as a weakness of OpenRC. How does this patch interact, or is there some other daemon managedment tool which could be adapted to work with OpenRC. (I presume not daemontools, since DJB stuff generally works with DJB, and not much else.)
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mayak · n00b Joined: 16 Jul 2013 Posts: 26

Since I am not an experienced software developer at all, I am neither judging nor approving the comments from user 'voronaam':
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1y40c1/wich_distro_are_still_commited_to_not_using/
But still I think they are interesting to read.

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the link, mayak.

It's always funny to read the systemd fanboi justifications and obfuscations in discussions. :lol:

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666threesixes666 · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject:

i was fan boi shortly for systemd.... i have it on the system still for writing wikis to instigate threads such as this... but i was reading through some documentation about init process, and it just really made systemd sound like a very bad idea. kitchen sink init vs crash proof tiny init. systemd being everything and the kitchen sink, calling dbus etc. i do feel some reassurance though that it will get better as so many are switching to it, that it will accelerate progress.

greyspoke · Apprentice Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 171

Re dhcpcd.

This may not be relevant depontius, but I tried systemd/ Gnome to see what all the fuss was about and the only service I needed to enable to get the network up was dhcpcd, and all that seems to do it start dhcpcd. The dhcpcd docs indicate this should be all one needs.

But a problem I have with systemd is I don't really understand how exactly it does what it does, so who knows what else systemd (+ udev) is automatically doing at start-up to help things along.

yagami · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:33 am Post subject:

yagami · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:35 am Post subject:

ps:

just read more answers to voronaam, and yes those are completly trollish...

but those will ever exist ... there is nothing one can do about that kind of people. IMPORTANT IS NOT TO BECOME LIKE THEM even if right.

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:10 am Post subject:

I used the proper term, "systemd fanboi" for the trolls of that thread
especially many of those responding to voronaam.

I wasn't using it in a general term, certainly not towards you yagami, or 666,
though there are a couple of trolls on this site.

I don't use the label fanboi, simply for someone using systemd or liking it,
it's more when there's no thought in a reply other than you're "an LP hater"
or "you hate progress" or some such silly response.

I neither like nor dislike systemd, it's simply a fricking program.
I don't like the way it's been foisted upon the linux ecosystem, but that's my prerogative.
Just as it is my choice to not use in my systems, and it is your choice to possibly use it.

Anyway, moving on.

Edit to add: I don't insult devs, just to do so.
But when they become trolls themselves, which a couple have done, I'll point it out.
If they don't like being called trolls, then they need to quit doing things that make them appear that way.
And yes, I'm probably a troll in someone elses eyes, but I don't get all upset over it.
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Shamus397 · Apprentice Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Ur-th

I've got a Funtoo system over here that uses dhcpcd with OpenRC and it works quite well. You can still configure a static IP by creating a symlink to /etc/init.d/netif.tmpl (something like /etc/init.d/netif.eth0, e.g.) and you can configure that static IP with /etc/conf.d/netif.eth0.

If you have no need for a static IP, dhcpcd works well here, you basically have to configure nothing; it just works(TM).

OK, you do have to set it in the default runlevel using rc-update, but life isn't fair now, is it?

It's all explained here. I need to test migrate one of my Gentoo systems over to use this. Will post results if anyone is interested.

yagami · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject: