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Bigun
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Time and Timezones Reply with quote

Enjoy!

I started laughing about 3/4 of the way through.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

British guy ranting about timezones. Watched about 4s of the video.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Time and Timezones Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Enjoy!

I started laughing about 3/4 of the way through.
Interesting. I didn't laugh, but I did wonder why he didn't look for an existing solution earlier.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only real solution would be abolishing time zones altogether. starting with this DST crap.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
the only real solution would be abolishing time zones altogether. starting with this DST crap.


++
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
the only real solution would be abolishing time zones altogether. starting with this DST crap.
DST really needs to go. The existence of timezones doesn't really cause problems.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
the only real solution would be abolishing time zones altogether. starting with this DST crap.
DST really needs to go. The existence of timezones doesn't really cause problems.
timezones complicate things that could be simpler, such as simple date and time arithmetic. they also provide no tangible advantage. ergo, they should be eliminated.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They exist BECAUSE of a tangible advantage.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
They exist BECAUSE of a tangible advantage.
and what advantage is that? "time of day outside and on the clock are roughly the same in different areas"? that doesn't even hold true in the same location during the course of a year and certainly doesn't hold if you consider that time zones tend to be defined country-wide outside of the US, which makes for ridiculous differences in some countries. and then there's some countries where you won't have a proper night or day for a couple weeks.

now, i could see them provide an advantage if they were done right - add a gps module to a watch and provide timezones to the second based on the position of the user, although that still wouldn't work properly for areas where days are just plain ol' longer than 24 hours.

on the other hand these timezones make stuff really complicated by being defined along purely arbitrary, political borders, mostly along useless concepts like "countries" which don't have a place in a modern, global society as it is. it's just one more way for politards to control you by showing you how different other people are because even their clocks work in a weird way. fuck that.</tinfoilhat>
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timezones exist, because time measurement is for the people. Not the other way round. 12 o'clock? That is when the sun is at its highest.

Easy. Everybody can understand that. Much easier than

5 - it is dark here. And those assholes from 5 countries to the right are calling me because 5 is the middle of the morning for them and they are working for several hours now.
So how do I know if 5 means 'dark', 'middle of the day' 'middle of the night' or 'football is on TV'? Hey, I have an idea - with timezones!

So we are back to square one. Just worse.

Seriously, timeszones are GREAT.

DST is garbage and everybody defending that crap must be murdered in the most horrible way possible because they have no brain at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
timezones exist, because time measurement is for the people. Not the other way round. 12 o'clock? That is when the sun is at its highest.

Easy. Everybody can understand that. Much easier than

5 - it is dark here. And those assholes from 5 countries to the right are calling me because 5 is the middle of the morning for them and they are working for several hours now.
So how do I know if 5 means 'dark', 'middle of the day' 'middle of the night' or 'football is on TV'? Hey, I have an idea - with timezones!

So we are back to square one. Just worse.

Seriously, timeszones are GREAT.

DST is garbage and everybody defending that crap must be murdered in the most horrible way possible because they have no brain at all.
but precisely that does not actually WORK with timezones. You don't need to know that "12 o'clock is where the sun is at its highest". You can look out of a friggen window for that purpose: "oh, the sun is high in the sky - and look at that, it's 23:00, who cares". and as i said, that would be a problem that could be solved PROPERLY, WITHOUT country-bound timezones by just making watches figure out where they are - you know, like mobile phones, which most people use as substitutes for watches anyway - and apply a proper, second-precision offset as opposed to the pointless, hour-based offset that in some countries doesn't even resemble the local conditions in any way.

And if you're calling someone in a different country, 9 times out of 10 you don't realise what the time is for THEM. you're going to be that douche that says "oh, sorry I woke you, you see it's evening here and I didn't realise you lived on the other side of the planet." you don't need timezones for that, you need basic geography or astronomy skills instead. timezones exist - but they don't fix what they're supposed to fix PROPERLY. they're like a bandaid for a deep flesh wound.

... and sticking with that, DST would probably be the seawater with sharks you get thrown into :twisted:
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
and what advantage is that? "time of day outside and on the clock are roughly the same in different areas"? that doesn't even hold true in the same location during the course of a year and certainly doesn't hold if you consider that time zones tend to be defined country-wide outside of the US, which makes for ridiculous differences in some countries. and then there's some countries where you won't have a proper night or day for a couple weeks.
Yes, the human factor. Computers do simple complex tasks quickly, and should be used for such tasks. Eliminating timezones doesn't prevent me from needing to "convert" to when someone else is having their "8AM." In fact, eliminating time zones makes it even worse, because I then have to learn each "timezone's" equivalent of "8AM."
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amusing video. I can sympathize.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
and what advantage is that? "time of day outside and on the clock are roughly the same in different areas"? that doesn't even hold true in the same location during the course of a year and certainly doesn't hold if you consider that time zones tend to be defined country-wide outside of the US, which makes for ridiculous differences in some countries. and then there's some countries where you won't have a proper night or day for a couple weeks.
Yes, the human factor. Computers do simple complex tasks quickly, and should be used for such tasks. Eliminating timezones doesn't prevent me from needing to "convert" to when someone else is having their "8AM." In fact, eliminating time zones makes it even worse, because I then have to learn each "timezone's" equivalent of "8AM."
... which I still find to be a curious argument. even according to the human factor, you'd have to find out what time zone those guys are in in the first place/what offset they have AND what their daily rhythm is. - i.e. calling a normal person at 8am around here means you'll call them just when they got into their office, sipping on their first coffee. calling a computer scientist at 8am means they won't get up for at least 2 hours.

that's two pieces of information. if everyone were on UTC, you'd only have to find out one piece of information: it's early morning at xx:xx in that area, OR the guy usually comes into office at xx:xx.

... and that's not even mentioning countries like china, which are in fact big enough to warrant using four or five distinct time zones, yet only use one. so depending on where in china you call, their 8am could just as well be 4am or noon. the same goes for india and huge parts of greenland.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8AM was only an example. I think you're making an argument FOR timezones, given China and others.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My stomach tells me when it is 12 o'clock.
Stupid 24 hour system (not to mention 12+12).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
8AM was only an example. I think you're making an argument FOR timezones, given China and others.
They used to have time zones and abolished them. Apparently they thought they were pointless, too ;). I suppose It does make it quite a bit easier to set up appointments...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timezones exists so that an englishmen could drink tea at the same time of day (not in pitch black darkness, for example), regardless which colony you are currently in. Otherwise who gives a fuck if lunch is at 3AM as long as its mid-day.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole thing will only get really interesting when we have colonies on other planets, preferably in a different solar system.
Until then, I don't care.
Bevor isch misch uffresch, isses mer lieber egal.
(Instead of getting upset, i rather don't care - approximate translation)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
They used to have time zones and abolished them. Apparently they thought they were pointless, too ;).
I wouldn't use China as an example of what to do, except for maybe the DRPK.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
They used to have time zones and abolished them. Apparently they thought they were pointless, too ;).
I wouldn't use China as an example of what to do, except for maybe the DRPK.
they do have that efficiency and computery stuff nailed pretty well, as do the indians :)

Clad in Sky wrote:
This whole thing will only get really interesting when we have colonies on other planets, preferably in a different solar system.
Until then, I don't care.
Bevor isch misch uffresch, isses mer lieber egal.
(Instead of getting upset, i rather don't care - approximate translation)
who's getting upset o.O? although DST really should go, that just fucks with yer biorhythm for no particular reason.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
...although DST really should go, that just fucks with yer biorhythm for no particular reason.


It wouldn't be that bad if it was a shift of 4+ hours.... but one hour just is maddening.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
they do have that efficiency and computery stuff nailed pretty well, as do the indians :)
Depending on the definitions of "computery stuff" and "nailed." :twisted:
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