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fpemud
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: How does Jolla phone supports android app? Reply with quote

How does jolla phone supports android app?
Is it through a wine like software?
Is this software open source and in active development?
Can this software be ported to PC?

I'm interested in jolla phone. I think it has a good potential to install gentoo on it.
But I want to be sure about these questions before buying it.

I can't find any official forum/maillist/bugzilla of jolla or salfish.
An open source phone or os should not be like this.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: How does Jolla phone supports android app? Reply with quote

fpemud wrote:
How does jolla phone supports android app?
Is it through a wine like software?


No. It's just like running a linux app in regular android, just compile it "if-you-can". Android is linux. So is the jolla OS. From what I have read in reviews jolla also has a dalvik java machine, so, it should be able to run android apps natively. A different question is how well will they behave... I can't really answer that part since I haven't tried a jolla phone. And I sure will not since I have no money to expend on experiments.

Quote:
Is this software open source and in active development?
Can this software be ported to PC?


Active - I don't know.

Ported to PC - what do you mean? Do you intend to run the jolla OS in a regular PC?

Quote:
I'm interested in jolla phone. I think it has a good potential to install gentoo on it.
But I want to be sure about these questions before buying it.


Ugh... I'd really do that on a regular cheap android phone. It's all linux. If you have a kernel that's able to boot the mobile, and is also able to use all the circuitry (wifi, 3g, gps, camera, sensors, etc. etc. etc.) then it's a matter of finding the right apps so it is of any use. But, if you don't know what I am talking about just don't do it. You'll be wasting your money.

If you are going to replace the soul of it, there's absolutely no point in wasting 400 bucks on the phone when you can buy 1gb/a7 or even a9 arm phones for 100€.

Quote:
I can't find any official forum/maillist/bugzilla of jolla or salfish.
An open source phone or os should not be like this.


Just one more reason not to waste the money. :wink:
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fpemud
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ported to PC - what do you mean? Do you intend to run the jolla OS in a regular PC?


Yes, I do.
To prove that the Salfish OS is flexible enough and open enough.
And I want to run android apps on PC (without virtual machine) for a long time.


Quote:
If you are going to replace the soul of it, there's absolutely no point in wasting 400 bucks on the phone when you can buy 1gb/a7 or even a9 arm phones for 100€.


I don't want to replace anything.
Salfish OS is also composed of many apps, I want to write ebuild for them and manage a Jolla phone in the gentoo way.
And, I'm really in fond of jolla's "the other half" concept.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fpemud wrote:
Quote:
Ported to PC - what do you mean? Do you intend to run the jolla OS in a regular PC?


Yes, I do.
To prove that the Salfish OS is flexible enough and open enough.


Keyword here is "enough". Gentoo Linux, as an example, is simply "open", not "open enough".

Anyway, the fact that you are asking here is probably a sign that they are not that "open enough". Either that, or you haven't found the right place to ask. Or maybe they haven't got the time to set up a forum or something like that. Maybe they have a mailing list or something :)


  • In the case that you want to install Sailfish in a PC, we, absolutely, cannot help you. Just like we can't with installing Windows on a Playstation. This forum is about Gentoo. Not Sailfish/Jolla. Adapting portage to be used under the Sailfish OS would take a considerable amount of patience and know-how, just like it took more than one decade to port the BSD ports system and go from Enoch to what Gentoo is now.
  • In the case that you want to install Gentoo on a Jolla phone and, thus, replace it's native Sailfish OS with Gentoo, you should probably open a specific thread for that here: Gentoo on alternative architectures
  • If what you want (I suspect this one is the one) is to integrate the Sailfish SDK into portage, you will probably have to learn quite a bit about Gentoo, overlays, and ebuild writing. As far as I know, no one has done a similar thing before. There are ebuilds for the android sdk, but that's about it. You can't simply use Gentoo to compile android apps directly (you can cross-compile of course). And you can't run them either, without a vm of some kind. I suspect the same holds true for Sailfish.


Quote:

And I want to run android apps on PC (without virtual machine) for a long time.


If this is all you want, then you don't want jolla on a pc. You want either to port the applications or to create a native loader for them, just like wine for Windows apps. It could be name jolline :P Jokes aside, as far as I know, the sailfish does all this stuff into a virtualbox based vm. You should probably start by researching what that vm has inside. I know they use qt and wayland, and that's a good starting point, but probably the thing is far from trivial since without any doubt everything there is patched to the bone (starting with the kernel, and following with wayland, qt, qt-webkit and all the rest).

Quote:

Quote:
If you are going to replace the soul of it, there's absolutely no point in wasting 400 bucks on the phone when you can buy 1gb/a7 or even a9 arm phones for 100€.


I don't want to replace anything.
Salfish OS is also composed of many apps, I want to write ebuild for them and manage a Jolla phone in the gentoo way.
And, I'm really in fond of jolla's "the other half" concept.


Rrright. But the fact that is that, most likely, jolla's apps won't work outside Sailfish, because of the things I mentioned above. I'd really like to be wrong, but for that, we would need a list of the patches that Sailfish applies to its components. If we get that, then it would be a matter of writing ebuilds and adding a "sailfish" or "jolla" USE flag to them. I guess that would be the right way to handle that. But there are several other ways depending on what exactly you want to do.
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lindegur
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I very like i92guboj's idea to have a Gentoo Linux installation as the base and then install the missing parts to finally have a sailfish OS device.
I wish to have such portable devices :wink:

So the questions is: Can sailfish OS really run on top of a clean Linux distribution?
https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Overview

It looks that salifish OS runs on top of Mer and Qt5. Some questions to answer would be:
Runs Mer on top of Gentoo? This link might give an answer https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation_Guide/Step_by_step
A first look at the mer project scares me since it seems it comes simply with too much http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb :cry:
And qt5 :roll:

A first step might be:
Install it on VirtualBox to see what it is and decide if it is worth the effort (I guess this guide shows that): http://www.learn2crack.com/2013/08/run-sailfishos-pc.html
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nephros
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jolla phone owner here.

Jolla does run Android apps, and it does so through a framework called "Alien Dalvik". As I understand it it is a portable implementation of the Dalvik virtual machine as well as some glue components to run it on a non-Android platform.
Alien Dalvik is a proprietary application developed by Myriad Group.

Initially it was announced for the Nokia N9(00) as well but nothing ever came from it.

In fact, Jolla runs two stacks of Android, one is the Alien Dalvik machine for users to install and run Android apps, another one is used internally to talk to the GSM/UMTS hardware (Qualcomm I think) because that doesn't have drivers for native Jolla.

Regarding Gentoo running on Jolla's SailfishOS, if you download their (free) SDK it comes with a virtual machine image (Virtualbox) to test software on. think it would indeed be possible to do a PREFIX installation of Gentoo there, but it will be some effort.
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nephros
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: How does Jolla phone supports android app? Reply with quote

i92guboj wrote:


No. It's just like running a linux app in regular android, just compile it "if-you-can". Android is linux. So is the jolla OS.


Well, you are not wrong but calling Android Linux is a bit of a stretch. It's a heavily modified Linux kernel with completely new userland, plus the Dalvik Java VM. In other words, it is completely unlike any other distribution of Linux out there.

Jolla/SailfishOS is much, much closer to Linux as we know it, its apps are wayland/weston clients and there's all the things we are used to: ssh, bash, systemd init system, daemons like ntpd, gpsd and telepathy do some of the 'phone' stuff.
It's quite easy to port some general linux software to run on the Jolla, especially command-line and curses based things. Basically compile it through their SDK and you're good. (I found it easier on the N9 though because that used the Debian build system which meant you had access to the huge library of Debian packages, but Jolla's is OK too)

Porting graphical applications gets a little difficult with Jolla, mainly because the lack of X11. But if you're comfortable programming Qt5/QML you're fine there too.
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