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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
all I need to do if I want to own a semi-auto is too join a shooters club?
nice, reasonable, effective, and useful requirement. lol
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Muso
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Greens wrote:
Do you guys ever stop arguing about gun laws?
you new here ?


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, join a museum you can go inside and pretend it is yesteryear, when at least some of your people (the landed gentry) could carry firearms, but don't dare you get caught on the street with one! Verboten!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
They can't help it. Gun laws in Europe are an extension of the old class systems in which the masses were oppressed by the aristocracy and forbidden such things, lest they poach game from the land of their Lords, or, heaven forbid, resist their oppression. They remain oppressed, they remain forbidden such things, and they remain in denial, with people like cokehabit blurting out such things as "it's important for people to know their place and respect their betters". How can you discuss individual rights with people who believe in their hearts that they don't deserve them?


or, at least in britain, they were in response to a mass shooting.

I don't know where you get these odd generalizations, but you should probably make sure there isn't a dead simple counter example.
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wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your peasant-like Stockholm Syndrome is too obvious. Don't talk to me about such things until you stop worshiping monarchs and "nobility".
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
They can't help it. Gun laws in Europe are an extension of the old class systems in which the masses were oppressed by the aristocracy and forbidden such things, lest they poach game from the land of their Lords, or, heaven forbid, resist their oppression.

You know, in the time between the old class systems and falling for various fascist/totalitarian regimes, we pretty much had a US militia's wet dream. It was a nightmare.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the two overlapped. In fact, most of Europe still hasn't let go of their feudalistic co-dependency.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're wrong: http://www.stepmap.de/karte/monarchien-europas-1631
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what you're trying to show there, but all I see is a shitload of anachronistic monarchies (under various labels) and, even in the few places where monarchy has been stamped out, people still clinging to the perverse masochism of aristocracy. There are very few exceptions.

It is this same "bend over and spread your ass-cheeks" mentality that makes it so hard for Europeans to grasp the concept of individual rights in general, and the importance of things like free speech and self-defense.

I readily admit that, under Europe-emulating Democrats, the U.S. is doing its damnedest to become the same, and that under Stalinist Obama, we have in some ways (e.g., surveillance) surpassed Europe on the voluntary anal penetration scale.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I don't know what you're trying to show there, but all I see is a shitload of anachronistic monarchies (under various labels) and, even in the few places where monarchy has been stamped out, people still clinging to the perverse masochism of aristocracy.

You either have big trouble in math or a very strange geographical definition of Europe. The absolute majority both in number of states and population does not live in a monarchy, and of those few that are, at least two are that small you can't even speak of proper states. And one hardly considers itself to be European.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many still have monarchs; you can quibble that having a monarch does not necessarily make them a "monarchy" per se, but I say that for these purposes it does. Most of those that don't have monarchs still polish the knobs of their aristocracies. This is why Europeans just don't get it, when it comes to individual rights; they have spent thousands of years polishing somebody else's knob and thanking them for the privilege.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Many still have monarchs; you can quibble that having a monarch does not necessarily make them a "monarchy" per se, but I say that for these purposes it does. Most of those that don't have monarchs still polish the knobs of their aristocracies.

So it is math _and_ geography you don't have a clue of :lol: At least we got you down from 'most' to 'many', which is still hyperbole when you consider the 40 or 50 countries there are, depending on your counting.

And that is all besides the fact that we did have a time where the people were armed to the teeth - a time when actually many labour union demands were granted by conservative governments for fear of terror. Party militias, a weak state and army in between, and we know how it ended.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it ended with Austria having an Emperor and aristocracy and being masters of the universe to being Germany's spread-legged bitch to being nothing but an impotent, costume-wearing, 2nd-tier tourist destination.

But, I still say Europe as a whole still clings masochistically to hereditary monarchy and aristocracy and has a sort of co-dependent, self-abusive Stockholm Syndrome love affair with being abused as individuals by collectivist authoritarians. It's like "Spank me Harder! I don't deserve Individual rights! Oh, yes! Pull my hair, call me a whore, and put me in my place! Deny my free speech! Search me on the streets! Spank me and don't let me defend myself! Make me feel helpless! I love it!"
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