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fturco
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: [SOLVED] Do I need D-Bus? Reply with quote

I noticed I have a dbus package on my system, but I don't have the dbus USE flag enabled and the dbus daemon is not running. I don't really know what D-Bus does and if I really need it. I think the current situation is not really good, and that I should either try to remove it completely or enable the daemon and the USE flag.
Code:
$ equery depends dbus
 * These packages depend on dbus:
app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.10 (dbus ? sys-apps/dbus)
dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.100.2 (>=sys-apps/dbus-1.6.2)
dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1 (>=sys-apps/dbus-1.2.14)

Code:
$ equery depends dbus-glib
 * These packages depend on dbus-glib:
mail-client/thunderbird-24.1.0-r2 (dbus ? >=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.72)
net-irc/hexchat-2.9.6.1-r1 (dbus ? >=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.98)
www-client/firefox-25.0.1 (dbus ? >=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.72)

So if I disable the dbus USE flag the only package that requires it is dev-libs/glib. The problem is dev-libs/glib is needed by a lot of applications I use (QEMU, Thunderbird, Firefox, MPD, Openbox...):
Code:
$ equery depends glib
 * These packages depend on glib:
app-emulation/qemu-1.6.1 (!static-softmmu ? >=dev-libs/glib-2.0)
                         (static-user ? >=dev-libs/glib-2.0[static-libs(+)])
                         (static-softmmu ? >=dev-libs/glib-2.0[static-libs(+)])
                         (test ? dev-libs/glib[utils])
app-text/poppler-0.24.3 (cairo ? dev-libs/glib:2)
dev-libs/atk-2.8.0 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.31.2:2)
dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.100.2 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.26:2)
dev-libs/fribidi-0.19.5-r2 (>=dev-libs/glib-2:2[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?])
dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.36.0-r1 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.36:2)
dev-libs/libcroco-0.6.8 (dev-libs/glib:2)
dev-python/pygobject-2.28.6-r55 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.24.0:2)
dev-python/pygtk-2.24.0-r4 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.8:2)
dev-util/pkgconfig-0.28 (!internal-glib ? >=dev-libs/glib-2.30)
gnome-base/libglade-2.6.4 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.10:2)
gnome-base/librsvg-2.39.0 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.24:2)
mail-client/thunderbird-24.1.0-r2 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.26:2)
media-gfx/graphite2-1.2.1 (test ? dev-libs/glib:2)
media-libs/harfbuzz-0.9.23 (glib ? dev-libs/glib:2)
media-sound/mpd-0.18.4 (dev-libs/glib:2)
media-sound/ncmpc-0.21 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.12:2)
net-irc/hexchat-2.9.6.1-r1 (dev-libs/glib:2)
sci-libs/libqalculate-0.9.7-r1 (dev-libs/glib:2)
sys-apps/dbus-1.6.18 (test ? >=dev-libs/glib-2.24)
sys-fs/udev-208 (gudev ? >=dev-libs/glib-2)
www-client/firefox-25.0.1 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.26:2)
www-plugins/adobe-flash-11.2.202.327 (abi_x86_64 ? dev-libs/glib:2)
                                     (dev-libs/glib:2[abi_x86_32(-)])
                                     (x86 ? dev-libs/glib:2)
x11-libs/cairo-1.12.16 (glib ? >=dev-libs/glib-2.28.6:2)
x11-libs/gdk-pixbuf-2.28.2 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.34.0:2)
x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.22 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.34:2)
x11-libs/gtksourceview-2.10.5-r2 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.14:2)
x11-libs/pango-1.34.1 (>=dev-libs/glib-2.33.12:2)
x11-misc/shared-mime-info-1.2-r1 (>=dev-libs/glib-2)
x11-wm/openbox-3.5.2-r1 (dev-libs/glib:2)


So perhaps I cannot really choose to remove it. What do you suggest? If you suggest to keep it, how can I test the usefulness of it? Thank you.


Last edited by fturco on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Logicien
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the dbus USE flag enabled globally and I think it is enabled by default in close to all ebuilds that have it.

In the console Dbus do not serve to mutch, but in desktop environment, it's, if not mandatory, important to have it enabled and started. Dbus boot script is not enabled by me but it is started by other boot scripts I enabled that have it as a dependancy.

A lot of packages, not Dbus itself, install configuration files in the /etc/dbus-1/ sub-directories, because they use it to offer their services, and others use Dbus to know which services are available.

So I dont think it's a good idea to disable the dbus USE flag globally unless 'you know what you do' as I often read in Free Softwares documentation.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't run dbus, *kit or systemd or new udev.

But I also don't run gnome or kde and don't know if they require it.

I have it globally disabled, and glib is happy, as long as the "test and utils" use flag isn't set.

Whenever I get ready to emerge new packages, I use the "-p" option
to see what "will" get installed and adjust any flags needed at that time.

It's more time consuming than just accepting defaults, but that's what distros like gentoo are for.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confirming that a desktop-system without dbus is possible. firefox, thunderbird ... are running fine.
If you are using a graphical file-manager, the "Trash" will most likely not work.

Good luck!
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fturco
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just opened dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1 ebuild and noticed this:
Code:
DEPEND="${RDEPEND}
        [...]
        test? (
                [...]
                >=sys-apps/dbus-1.2.14 )
        [...]
"

So it seems glib needs dbus only if the "test" use flag is enabled. Why then:
Code:
$ equery depends dbus
[...]
dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1 (>=sys-apps/dbus-1.2.14)

:?:
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fturco
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I globally disabled the "dbus" USE flag, recompiled firefox and thunderbird, and then removed the "dbus" and "dbus-glib" packages with emerge --depclean. I'm happy now :)

The only thing that remains to be understood is equery depends behaviour. But this probably belongs to another dedicated topic.

Thank you all!
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

olek wrote:
Confirming that a desktop-system without dbus is possible. firefox, thunderbird ... are running fine.
If you are using a graphical file-manager, the "Trash" will most likely not work.

Good luck!


Also confirming. I have Dbus on my system, I only started it for the first time a few days ago when I emerged k3b and it wouldn't detect my dvdrw without it running.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methinks dbus is as Obamacare.
All apps interacted before it using pipes = people were buying their own insurance.
Now communication goes thru dbus = healthcare thru Obamacare web site.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fturco wrote:
So it seems glib needs dbus only if the "test" use flag is enabled. Why then:
Code:
$ equery depends dbus
[...]
dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1 (>=sys-apps/dbus-1.2.14)

:?:


Because equery shows potential dependencies.
It doesn't take into account useflags for its reporting.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
fturco wrote:
So it seems glib needs dbus only if the "test" use flag is enabled. Why then:
Code:
$ equery depends dbus
[...]
dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1 (>=sys-apps/dbus-1.2.14)

:?:


Because equery shows potential dependencies.
It doesn't take into account useflags for its reporting.
It does take into account useflags.
Code:
~» equery depends gstreamer
 * These packages depend on gstreamer:
app-office/libreoffice-bin-4.1.2.3 (media-libs/gstreamer:1.0)
dev-qt/qtwebkit-4.8.5 (gstreamer ? >=media-libs/gstreamer-0.10.36:0.10)
...
net-im/pidgin-2.10.7-r4 (gstreamer ? =media-libs/gstreamer-0.10*)
www-client/opera-12.16_p1860 (gstreamer ? media-libs/gstreamer:0.10)
~» 

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
fturco wrote:
So it seems glib needs dbus only if the "test" use flag is enabled. Why then:
Code:
$ equery depends dbus
[...]
dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1 (>=sys-apps/dbus-1.2.14)

:?:


Because equery shows potential dependencies.
It doesn't take into account useflags for its reporting.
It does take into account useflags.
Code:
~» equery depends gstreamer
 * These packages depend on gstreamer:
app-office/libreoffice-bin-4.1.2.3 (media-libs/gstreamer:1.0)
dev-qt/qtwebkit-4.8.5 (gstreamer ? >=media-libs/gstreamer-0.10.36:0.10)
...
net-im/pidgin-2.10.7-r4 (gstreamer ? =media-libs/gstreamer-0.10*)
www-client/opera-12.16_p1860 (gstreamer ? media-libs/gstreamer:0.10)
~» 


I should have said it's not consistent in always showing useflag triggered dependency.
Otherwise the question of glib wouldn't have shown up vs
what shows up with a package like libreoffice-bin which is a hard dependency vs
qtwebkit which is useflag triggered dependency.
perhaps it's not equery, but something in the way an ebuild is written.

Anyway it's off topic to the original question.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What is D-Bus?" - Well, you have the internet. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus wrote:
D-Bus is a free and open-source inter-process communication (IPC) system, allowing multiple, concurrently-running computer programs (processes) to communicate with one another. It is mainly used by components of the freedesktop implementations such as GNOME, KDE SC or Xfce.

Heavily influenced by the DCOP system used by versions 2 and 3 of KDE, D-Bus has replaced DCOP in the KDE 4 release. An implementation of D-Bus supports most POSIX operating systems, and a port for Windows exists. It is used by Qt 4 and GNOME. In GNOME it has gradually replaced most parts of the earlier Bonobo mechanism.

(...)

D-Bus works with unix sockets between applications and daemons (applications communicate with each other through a fork of the D-Bus daemon), but work has started to create a "peer-to-peer" socket-type in the Linux kernel able to route messages between applications, leaving the daemon as a top-level manager.[3] The new approach improves speed by halving the number of memory-copy operations.
So something like "All apps interacted before it using pipes" is something completely different.

[3] : http://alban-apinc.blogspot.de/2011/12/d-bus-in-kernel-faster.html
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question on this one. I'd like to get rid of dbus if possible. However there are a few dependencies for dev-libs/dbus-glib that I'm not sure I can get around:

Code:
equery d dev-libs/dbus-glib
 * These packages depend on dev-libs/dbus-glib:
app-office/libreoffice-bin-4.1.2.3 (>=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.92)
app-text/enchant-1.6.0 (zemberek ? dev-libs/dbus-glib)
dev-python/dbus-python-1.2.0 (>=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.100)
media-gfx/gimp-2.8.6 (dbus ? dev-libs/dbus-glib)
media-plugins/audacious-plugins-3.2.2-r1 (>=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.60)
media-sound/audacious-3.2.2-r1 (>=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.60)
media-video/gxine-0.5.907 (gnome-screensaver ? >=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.90)
net-im/pidgin-2.10.7-r4 (dbus ? >=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.71)
www-client/firefox-bin-24.1.1 (dev-libs/dbus-glib)


Am I correct that the ones without the use flag conditions are hard dependencies? The one that would be the biggest issue for me is firefix-bin. I have an older system and there's no possible way I'm compiling the current firefox with it's absurd ram requirements. Is there any way I can use that and libreoffice-bin without dev-libs/dbus-glib? I'm also a little annoyed by the fact that audacious seems to have a hard dependency as well.

Tom
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

libreoffice-bin is compiled with dbus so yes dbus-glib is needed.

It's an option if one compiles it oneself.

I imagine the others are similar.
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tld
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I thought as much. I guess jettisoning dbus will have to wait for my long overdue switch t modern hardware ;). Thanks for the reply!

Tom
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld wrote:
firefox with it's absurd ram requirements

Try midori.

To replace audacious, cmus is very lightweight :)
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tld
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulBredbury wrote:
tld wrote:
firefox with it's absurd ram requirements

Try midori.

To replace audacious, cmus is very lightweight :)


Unfortunately I need firefox for too many development reasons...I use firebug/firephp a lot for one thing. DBUS aside, I'll probably give that cmus a try, as I've never been a big fan of audacious anyway...thanks!

Tom
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