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Progman3K
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Migrating to Gnome 3.8, systemd: blocking - SOLVED Reply with quote

Hi,

Following the guides
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/3.8-upgrade-guide
and
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd

I am trying to migrate/transition to Gnome 3.8 and Systemd but I am getting errors.

To resolve the blocking, what do I do? Is it OK for me to unmerge udev? Because I get warnings from portage saying I shouldn't do that.

Code:
emerge -vDt systemd
Quote:
[nomerge ] sys-apps/systemd-208-r2:0/1 USE="acl filecaps firmware-loader gudev introspection kmod pam policykit python tcpd"
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-2 51 kB
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/systemd-208-r2:0/1 USE="acl filecaps firmware-loader gudev introspection kmod pam policykit python tcpd" 8 kB
[ebuild U ] dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1:2 [2.32.4-r1:2] USE="static-libs" 8,303 kB
[ebuild R ] virtual/libffi-3.0.11 0 kB
[ebuild R ] virtual/libiconv-0 0 kB
[blocks B ] sys-apps/systemd ("sys-apps/systemd" is blocking sys-fs/udev-208)
[blocks B ] <dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.36 ("<dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.36" is blocking dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1)
[blocks B ] sys-fs/udev ("sys-fs/udev" is blocking sys-apps/systemd-208-r2)


Total: 5 packages (1 upgrade, 2 new, 2 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 8,361 kB
Conflict: 3 blocks (3 unsatisfied)

!!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been pulled
!!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict:

dev-libs/glib:2

(dev-libs/glib-2.32.4-r1::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
<dev-libs/glib-2.33:2 required by (dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.32.1::gentoo, installed)

(dev-libs/glib-2.36.4-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=dev-libs/glib-2[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?] required by (sys-apps/systemd-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)


* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.

(dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.32.1::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.29 required by (dev-libs/libgusb-0.1.4::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.7 required by (gnome-base/gnome-panel-2.32.1-r3::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.5:= required by (gnome-base/gconf-2.32.4-r1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.8 required by (media-libs/gstreamer-0.10.36::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.32.1 required by (app-text/poppler-0.24.3::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.5 required by (net-libs/libsoup-gnome-2.38.1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.4 required by (net-libs/gupnp-0.18.4::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.6 required by (net-im/telepathy-logger-0.6.0::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.2 required by (gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.102::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.6:= required by (dev-libs/libgee-0.6.7::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.5 required by (net-libs/webkit-gtk-1.8.3-r201::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.30 required by (sys-fs/udisks-2.1.0::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.32 required by (x11-libs/libnotify-0.7.5-r1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.32 required by (x11-libs/gtk+-3.4.4::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.4 required by (net-libs/gtk-vnc-0.5.2::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.4 required by (gnome-base/nautilus-2.32.2.1-r2::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.6:0/0= required by (dev-libs/libgee-0.6.7::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.12 required by (media-libs/gst-plugins-base-0.10.36::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.30 required by (x11-libs/libxklavier-5.2.1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.7 required by (net-libs/gssdp-0.12.2.1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.8 required by (x11-misc/colord-0.1.28::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6 required by (app-text/evince-2.32.0-r4::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.3 required by (x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.17::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.3 required by (x11-libs/gdk-pixbuf-2.26.4::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.0 required by (x11-libs/vte-0.28.2-r204::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.7 required by (dev-libs/libgdata-0.8.1-r2::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.5:0/0= required by (gnome-base/gconf-2.32.4-r1::gentoo, installed)
dev-libs/gobject-introspection required by @selected
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1 required by (sys-auth/polkit-0.112::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.30 required by (net-libs/telepathy-glib-0.20.1-r1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.10.8 required by (gnome-base/librsvg-2.36.4-r1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.14 required by (x11-libs/libwnck-2.31.0::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.0 required by (gnome-extra/gucharmap-3.0.1-r200::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.5 required by (net-libs/libsoup-2.38.1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.7 required by (dev-libs/atk-2.6.0::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.9.5 required by (dev-libs/json-glib-0.15.2::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.31.0 required by (gnome-base/gsettings-desktop-schemas-3.6.1::gentoo, installed)
dev-libs/gobject-introspection required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.21::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.3 required by (app-cdr/brasero-2.32.1-r1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.6.7 required by (gnome-base/gnome-menus-2.30.5-r1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-0.10 required by (net-libs/gupnp-igd-0.2.1::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.31.1 required by (media-libs/gstreamer-1.0.10::gentoo, installed)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.31.1 required by (sys-apps/systemd-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
>=dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.31.1 required by (sys-fs/udev-208::gentoo, installed)

(sys-apps/systemd-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
systemd
>=sys-apps/systemd-207 required by (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

(sys-fs/udev-208::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
>=sys-fs/udev-208[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev?,introspection?,kmod?,selinux?,static-libs?] (>=sys-fs/udev-208[abi_x86_64(-),gudev,introspection,kmod,static-libs]) required by (virtual/udev-208::gentoo, installed)


If you look at the output of emerge --info, you'll see I have selected the appropriate profile.

Code:
emerge --info
Quote:
Portage 2.2.7 (default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd, gcc-4.6.3, glibc-2.15-r3, 3.2.12-gentoo x86_64)
=================================================================
System uname: Linux-3.2.12-gentoo-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-2_Quad_CPU_Q6600_@_2.40GHz-with-gentoo-2.2
KiB Mem: 8169372 total, 1036964 free
KiB Swap: 8388604 total, 8079976 free
Timestamp of tree: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:30:01 +0000
ld GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.23.1
ccache version 3.1.9 [disabled]
app-shells/bash: 4.2_p45
dev-java/java-config: 2.1.12-r1
dev-lang/python: 2.7.5-r3, 3.1.5, 3.2.5-r3
dev-util/ccache: 3.1.9
dev-util/cmake: 2.8.11.2
dev-util/pkgconfig: 0.28
sys-apps/baselayout: 2.2
sys-apps/openrc: 0.12.4
sys-apps/sandbox: 2.6-r1
sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.69
sys-devel/automake: 1.9.6-r3, 1.10.3, 1.11.6, 1.12.6, 1.13.4
sys-devel/binutils: 2.23.1
sys-devel/gcc: 4.5.4, 4.6.3, 4.7.3-r1
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.7.3
sys-devel/libtool: 2.4.2
sys-devel/make: 3.82-r4
sys-kernel/linux-headers: 3.9 (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc: 2.15-r3
Repositories: gentoo myrepo
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="*"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=core2"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/config /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt /usr/share/polkit-1/actions"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/dconf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=core2"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-logs buildpkg config-protect-if-modified distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles merge-sync news parallel-fetch preserve-libs protect-owned sandbox sfperms splitdebug strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch userpriv usersandbox usersync"
FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org"
LANG="C"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
MAKEOPTS="-j9"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/overlays/my_overlays"
USE="X a52 aac accessibility acl acpi alsa amd64 archive artworkextra avahi banshee berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdda cddb cdio cdparanoia cdr cli colord cpudetection cracklib crypt css cups cvs cxx dbus dga dia divx djbfft doomsday dri dts dv dvb dvd dvdnav dvdr dvdread eds emboss emf encode evo exif expat extrafilters fam fame fax fbcondecor ffmpeg fftw firefox flac fltk fluidsynth fontconfig fortran ftp fuse g3dvl gdbm gdu gif gimp glitz gnome gnome-keyring gnome-online-accounts gnutls gpac gphoto2 gpm graphviz gs gstreamer gtk gtkhtml guile hal hdri hvm iconv icu id3tag ieee1394 imagemagick inkjar introspection ipod iptc java jbig joystick jpeg jpeg2k kvm ladspa lame lcms ldap libnotify libsamplerate libsecret live lyx lzo mad matroska md5sum midi mikmod mjpeg mmx mmxext mng mod modules mozilla mp2 mp3 mp4 mp4live mpeg mplayer mudflap multilib musepack mysql nautilus ncurses nemesi network networking nls nptl nptlonly nsplugin nuv nvidia objc objc++ offensive ogg openal openexr opengl openmp pam pango pcre pda pdf pidgin plib plotutils png pnm policykit postproc postscript ppds pulseaudio pvr python qt3support quicktime radio rar raw rdesktop readline rtsp scanner sdl session smp sndfile socialweb soundtouch sox speex spell srt sse sse2 ssl ssse3 stars startup-notification static-libs subtitles svg systemd tcpd teletext tga theora threads threadsafe tiff tivo tk trayicon truetype twolame udev udisks unicode upower usb v4l v4l2 vamp vcd vcdinfo vcdx vde vdpau videos vlm vorbis wavpack win32codecs wmf wmp wxwidgets x264 xanim xcb xcomposite xml xprint xv xvmc zlib zoran zvbi" ABI_X86="64" ALSA_CARDS="emu10k1x" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan sheets stage tables krita karbon braindump author" CAMERAS="ptp2" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" DVB_CARDS="tda1004x" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ublox ubx" INPUT_DEVICES="evdev joystick" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-console presenter-minimizer" LINGUAS="en fr" OFFICE_IMPLEMENTATION="libreoffice" PHP_TARGETS="php5-5" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_3" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby19 ruby18" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"
Unset: CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LC_ALL, PORTAGE_BUNZIP2_COMMAND, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, SYNC, USE_PYTHON


Any help appreciated!
Thank you!


Last edited by Progman3K on Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eyoung100
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo Systemd Wiki wrote:
Installation

sys-apps/systemd contains udev and, then, you can safely let sys-fs/udev be removed as systemd will be the provider for virtual/udev.
sys-apps/systemd and sys-apps/dbus have a circular dependency which necessitates a 2-stage installation.
Install sys-apps/dbus with USE="-systemd". This is probably already done if you have a working desktop environment.
Enable the systemd USE flag globally (make.conf) and install sys-apps/systemd. This may also be accomplished by a world update. The consolekit use flag should also be disabled to prevent conflicts with the systemd-logind service. You can also switch to a systemd subprofile to use saner USE flags defaults not needing to change make.conf:
Code:
root # eselect profile list

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Progman3K
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, eyoung100

I figured out that means I must manually uninstall udev because portage will not do it automatically.
The language in the guide isn't clear on that.

I unmerged udev and virtual/udev and now systemd seems to be installing...
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Progman3K
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Solved! Reply with quote

Have to say, Gnome 3.8 is quite beautiful. I still haven't figured out how to work it yet but I'm sure I will.

The only step I had to add was

systemctl enable dhcpcd

Everything works, Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

Progman3K wrote:
Have to say, Gnome 3.8 is quite beautiful.

I don't know about "beautiful" :D In the last two years or so I have had several "painful" upgrades of Gnome. First the step from Gnome-2.32 to Gnome-3, when all of a sudden standard items such as a pull-down start menu had disappeared. Solution: install one of the Gnome Shell Extensions. Then there was the upgrade from 3.6 to 3.8, for which all of sudden the entire computer needs to be reconfigured to use systemd instead of OpenRC. On one of my laptops, I decided to install Xfce because I could not get Gnome-3.8 to work.

With systemd I still have some minor issues:

- Every time I boot my laptop, it runs fsck, which takes quite a while to finish, and then the machine is automatically rebooted :(
- For whatever reasons there are, I have not been able to get any NTP program working. Even though the time zone is set correctly, the time is displayed in UTC. If I change the time settings from Gnome, the old settings are restored upon restart :(
- My iPod is no longer usable with Gnome, although that could also be something else than systemd's fault :(
- There are many warning messages during startup and shutdown, but 'journalctl' fails to give any reasonable errors
- I get strange errors relating to 'udev' being 'not installed or not working correctly' during startup
- But most of all, I find it very difficult to judge whether the things that are controlled by systemctl are working correctly. There is virtually no diagnostic information about whether or not a service started of finished correctly :(

I am considering to downgrade my Gnome-3.8 laptop to Xfce as well. It is a step back in time, surely, but all the issues I mentioned above I do not have with OpenRC.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Wvr, nearly to every issue I have an idea or guess. But I don't hijack Progman3K thread!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ulenrich: if you have tips, tricks, or an otherwise constructive contribution, please post it. Comments like "I could tell you but I won't" are not useful.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But not in a solved thread about blocking portage tree issues. Please new thread!
Perhaps multiple threads: 1.clean shutdown with systemd 2. libmtp udev issue 3. locale and systemd 4. getting feedback with systemd

[edit] looking at your profile - all posts:
There are threads of yours that didn't wake my interest before (ntp,ipod)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

Progman3K wrote:
systemctl enable dhcpcd

With GNOME3 you'd probably want to enable either NetworkManager or NetworkManager-wait-online service instead.
Portage should automatically figure out the conversion from sys-fs/udev to systemd - perhaps you had sys-fs/udev in world file to block that.
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Progman3K
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

Leio wrote:
Portage should automatically figure out the conversion from sys-fs/udev to systemd - perhaps you had sys-fs/udev in world file to block that.

If that could be the result of me explicitly emerging sys-fs/udev at some point, then yes, most likely.
This install is originally from 2003 and has been updated ever-since. There have been some workarounds and probably a lot of ineptness too on my part :-)

Leio wrote:
With GNOME3 you'd probably want to enable either NetworkManager or NetworkManager-wait-online service instead.

I did notice that the network panel of the settings dialog was warning about no compatible services being found, thanks for making the link to that evident!

One problem I have had which may track back to a bug in the nvidia driver is that the gnome-session has seemingly crashed on me a few times now.

What happens is the window-manager (metacity?) or whatever draws the window-frames faults out (apparently, because) windows still appear on the screen for a while (but all graphical updates cease, even though the underlying apps are still running (evidenced by ps), audio continues playing) but there are no more title-bars or minimize/maximize buttons, the activities panel also disappears. The mouse pointer still can be moved but cannot be used to set the focus to anything. Keyboard input (Alt-whatever, Super-whatever, Control-whatever) is apparently ignored, if I switch to an alternate console (Ctrl+Alt+F1, for example) and come back, the entire desktop is black with only the mouse appearing and still moving.

Even restarting the computer to log back in brings me back to the blank, black desktop with only the mouse pointer for company.

Nuking ~/.config/gnome-session and restarting (gdm?) seems to fix the problem but it keeps re-occurring.

Thanks for your help, Leio!
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Leio
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

Progman3K wrote:
Leio wrote:
Portage should automatically figure out the conversion from sys-fs/udev to systemd - perhaps you had sys-fs/udev in world file to block that.

If that could be the result of me explicitly emerging sys-fs/udev at some point, then yes, most likely.
This install is originally from 2003 and has been updated ever-since. There have been some workarounds and probably a lot of ineptness too on my part :-)


If you upgrade or re-emerge things as workarounds, I would make sure to use --oneshot (-1 for short, so I use emerge -1va package_name). If world file is full of such stuff, I would remove the stuff I specifically don't know to want to be there (i.e, only apps I want and such) - looking at /var/lib/portage/world and removing stuff with emerge --deselect <package_name>; followed by checking what emerge --depclean -va tells.


The window manager in GNOME3 is mutter, with gnome-shell as a plugin to it basically, but now looking at it, it seems that as a technical detail it's actually gnome-shell as the binary, using libmutter shipped by mutter to do the window management bits.
For any crashes I'd look if it's maybe xorg-server/nvidia-drivers, etc. But yeah, that's something separate from this thread then.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
[edit] looking at your profile - all posts:
There are threads of yours that didn't wake my interest before (ntp,ipod)

Well, ulenrich, I sorry that my posts are too boring for you. Strange, I thought forums like these were there to provide help & assistance. I never realized that postings here need to meet certain (unwritten) standards concerning their entertainment value. Again, if you're going to be the kind of person who states "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you", then just go sit in a corner, feeling quietly superior about yourself, contemplating the infinite stupidity of human beings who cannot meet your ethereal standards.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WvR wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
[edit] looking at your profile - all posts:
There are threads of yours that didn't wake my interest before (ntp,ipod)

Well, ulenrich, I sorry that my posts are too boring for you.

No, I just don't have an ipod and I wanted to install ntp some week later. Just my agenda plan ...
You are not boring, but you were hiding some interesting stuff behind thread titles I oversaw :(
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Progman3K
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

WvR wrote:
In the last two years or so I have had several "painful" upgrades [...]

This is to be expected from an evolving, source-based distro. It's the downside of its endless possibilities.

WvR wrote:
Gnome-3, [...] pull-down start menu had disappeared. Solution: install one of the Gnome Shell Extensions.

That also bothered me initially and using gnome-tweak-tool, I brought back an equivalent to the start menu, but I eventually disabled it and prefer the activities panel now.

WvR wrote:
[...]the entire computer needs to be reconfigured to use systemd instead of OpenRC. [...]

That is something I have wondered about: How appropriate is systemd vs other init systems like OpenRC for embedded or resource-constrained platforms?
I don't have any actual data on this but my feeling is that systemd is probably a good idea for pc-like platforms but maybe not for more industrial/embedded applications.

WvR wrote:
- There are many warning messages during startup and shutdown, but 'journalctl' fails to give any reasonable errors
- I get strange errors relating to 'udev' being 'not installed or not working correctly' during startup
- But most of all, I find it very difficult to judge whether the things that are controlled by systemctl are working correctly. There is virtually no diagnostic information about whether or not a service started of finished correctly :(

Thanks for the insights about journalctl, I will be running it too and reading its output to try to understand a bit more.
I have had some strange behaviour, so all may not be quite right, yet.
Thanks, WvR!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

Progman3K wrote:

WvR wrote:
[...]the entire computer needs to be reconfigured to use systemd instead of OpenRC. [...]

That is something I have wondered about: How appropriate is systemd vs other init systems like OpenRC for embedded or resource-constrained platforms?
I don't have any actual data on this but my feeling is that systemd is probably a good idea for pc-like platforms but maybe not for more industrial/embedded applications.


Quite surprising thing I learned recently is that systemd powers phones like jolla and is also used by BMW (and probably other car manufactures using meego) on in-car units, also used intel/samsung/tizen and some blah blah about GENIVI compliance. I think its been said many times that most of systemd's development has been done by embedded people but when you've had ~500 contributors it's hard to look all those people up and find out where they are from and what they are doing things for :?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

rorgoroth wrote:
Quite surprising thing I learned recently is that systemd powers phones like jolla and is also used by BMW (and probably other car manufactures using meego) on in-car units, also used intel/samsung/tizen and some blah blah about GENIVI compliance. I think its been said many times that most of systemd's development has been done by embedded people [...]


Thanks for the info, good to hear. I expected the parallel service-starts and other things to be engineered for the bigger hardware but it makes sense in RT systems as well.
PS - Like your avatar, it's from Dod Sno, right?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

Progman3K wrote:

Thanks for the info, good to hear. I expected the parallel service-starts and other things to be engineered for the bigger hardware but it makes sense in RT systems as well.
PS - Like your avatar, it's from Dod Sno, right?


Np, I think that is one of the reasons at least for Tizen: https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/Automotive_Fast_Boot - On the topic I saw this video of a talk posted on these forums before which is quite interesting: How to: Embedded Systemd - booting userspace in less than 1 second.

Also, yes, I think you may be the first person (at least to say it) to recognize it :lol: Funny film!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Solved! Reply with quote

rorgoroth wrote:
[...] On the topic I saw this video of a talk posted on these forums before which is quite interesting: How to: Embedded Systemd - booting userspace in less than 1 second.


I burst out laughing when he said that this was a part you didn't want written by idiots, it left me wondering which parts, if any should be written by idiots, know what I mean? lol
Thanks for the links!
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