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wizardaeon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: really need a graphical installer Reply with quote

I sat down and installed gentoo linux today, following the book as well as a youtube video by Zachariah Anderson.
He only included install the base system without GUI in the guide, so I had to follow the guide as well as I could, being that they are not step by step instructions.
My system will boot into Gentoo now but It freezes when X tries to load. I dont have another 7 hours to reinstall Gentoo. Thats how long it took to install the base system and download/compile xorg and gnome-light.

I give up. I would really like to try Gentoo out. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, I managed to get Arch Linux running fine. I just dont understand why Gentoo cant be as simple, and why cant there be a graphical installer.
I am not a computer programmer. I am a Windows technician. I wanted a stable, secure alternative to Windows, so I chose Linux. Theres alot of great Linux distros out there but Im beginning to question, "why gentoo". I dont see the point of a Distro that takes extreme technical knowledge of linux just to use. Maybe I didnt read a disclaimer somewhere.
I wasted 7 hours of my time I will never get back, and I am very unlikely to try installing Gentoo again
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: really need a graphical installer Reply with quote

wizardaeon wrote:
I sat down and installed gentoo linux today, following the book as well as a youtube video by Zachariah Anderson.
He only included install the base system without GUI in the guide, so I had to follow the guide as well as I could, being that they are not step by step instructions.
My system will boot into Gentoo now but It freezes when X tries to load. I dont have another 7 hours to reinstall Gentoo. Thats how long it took to install the base system and download/compile xorg and gnome-light.

You couldn't be more wrong. In Linux we do not reinstall, we fix the problem.
wizardaeon wrote:
I give up. I would really like to try Gentoo out. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, I managed to get Arch Linux running fine. I just dont understand why Gentoo cant be as simple, and why cant there be a graphical installer.

Because it wouldn't be Gentoo then. I just got myself another car. It has manual transmission. Wife is complaining - why can't it switch the gears automatically!? If it did it wasn't manual any more. You chose a manual distro - and first thing you do is complaining, why is it manual?
wizardaeon wrote:
I am not a computer programmer. I am a Windows technician. I wanted a stable, secure alternative to Windows, so I chose Linux. Theres alot of great Linux distros out there but Im beginning to question, "why gentoo". I dont see the point of a Distro that takes extreme technical knowledge of linux just to use. Maybe I didnt read a disclaimer somewhere.
I wasted 7 hours of my time I will never get back, and I am very unlikely to try installing Gentoo again

I'm not a programmer either. I had six years of Linux experience before installing Gentoo. I had no problems, it was a smooth ride.
But then again, we do not sell Gentoo here. If you want it - we can help. If you don't - we couldn't care less.
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keet
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember the old LiveCD with the graphical installer. It was so easy; I just checked the boxes for all the options I wanted, chose some other options, and let it go...

overnight....

... and it still didn't finish, and didn't tell me what was wrong. I tried it several times, and still don't know what went wrong.

I think that if someone is at the point of understanding what options are available (specifically for Gentoo) and well-informed enough to choose them from a graphical menu, that person is at the level at which he can install it without a graphical installer. Do you really want an installer with hundreds of checkboxes? That is what I remember (perhaps somewhat incorrectly) about Gentoo's old graphical installer on the LiveCD. That is how a Gentoo G.U.I. installer would be. You'd choose from a few dozen partition layouts, a few dozen W.M.s or D.E.s, hundreds of USE flags.... after checking all those boxes and radio buttons, you'd wish to be able just fdisk your hard drive, download and extract an stage tarball, edit a few configuration files using a text editor, configure your kernel and bootloader, and have done with it.
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cwr
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been two attempts at building a graphical installer for Gentoo. The
first one was said to be flakey, so I avoided it, and when I tried the second one
it tried to wipe the MBR but crashed before it could do so. I didn't try it again.

Building a GUI installer is quite a lot of work, and there aren''t many Gentoo
developers. Better on the whole to stick to the current Stage 3 approach.

Will
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split from a very old thread (Is GUI install gone? from 2010) and moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat. Not really a support request so it fits better here.

- John
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wizardaeon,

You have selected the plug everything in and tune for maximum smoke Gentoo install.
The result is that nobody knows where the problem is yet.

Still, there is no need to reinstall anything, we need to narrow the problem space to know what is broken and advise on the fix.

The safe way to learn with Gentoo is to grow your code base by building on what you know works. That way, when it breaks, its probably the last thing you did. Fix that before moving on.

The first step is sorting out your install is to see what Xorg did when it started.
emerge wgetpaste and use it to post /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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Irom
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Gentoo because, as others said, I *want* to do everything by myself. Can you learn GNU/Linux by installing Ubuntu? Will you learn how the modern desktop works by pressing a button labeled "Update Distribution now"?

If you are not interested in these things, Gentoo is not the right distribution.

A second reason is that GUIs for configuration are a pain in the ass. There are so many occasions where it is just easier to "vim /path/to/configuration" and change a single line than to hunt for the (incorrectly translated) option in the "system settings" -- if it exists at all.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each of us has it's own Gentoo, they are all different from each other. Each builds its system in accordance with their priorities.
There is no ready-to-use-out-of-the-box Gentoo that you can get by pushing "Install-It" button. Because it is impossible to make such an installer that could handle all possible options.
In other words, Gentoo is a stage3 tarball + basic tools set. Using it you can build something. And you will be pretty sure that noone has the system like you have.

May be it worth to try some binary distro like Sabayon that based on Gentoo. I'm sure it should have GUI installer.
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_______0
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: calculate Reply with quote

check out:

http://www.calculate-linux.org/main/en/cls

100% gentoo compatible.
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lexflex
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: really need a graphical installer Reply with quote

wizardaeon wrote:

My system will boot into Gentoo now but It freezes when X tries to load. I dont have another 7 hours to reinstall Gentoo. Thats how long it took to install the base system and download/compile xorg and gnome-light.


As mentioned, being able to boot into gentoo, and only having problems with X, means you already can narrow the problem down.
This will never mean you need to reinstall Gentoo, since gentoo works.
So, you only need to reconfigure - an maybe reinstall - the application you want to run ... ( apparently X / Gnome)

wizardaeon wrote:

I give up. I would really like to try Gentoo out.
I wasted 7 hours of my time I will never get back, and I am very unlikely to try installing Gentoo again


This is probably not true: Either you want to be in control and learn how stuff works, and those 7 hours are worth it. Or you don't , and then you probably not actually mean you 'like to try Gentoo out'. Better use Debian or something like that then....

So, indeed, as NeddySeagoon says,
NeddySeagoon wrote:

The first step is sorting out your install is to see what Xorg did when it started.
emerge wgetpaste and use it to post /var/log/Xorg.0.log

best thing now is to look into why X wont start...


Alex.
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: really need a graphical installer Reply with quote

wizardaeon wrote:
I sat down and installed gentoo linux today, following the book as well as a youtube video by Zachariah Anderson.
He only included install the base system without GUI in the guide, so I had to follow the guide as well as I could, being that they are not step by step instructions.
Why? The handbook is a step-by-step instruction, and once you mastered the basics, kernel configuration is the only time consuming thing until you get into a bootable system. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml
wizardaeon wrote:
My system will boot into Gentoo now but It freezes when X tries to load. I dont have another 7 hours to reinstall Gentoo. Thats how long it took to install the base system and download/compile xorg and gnome-light.
No. Setting up gentoo to a point where you can boot the system on its own is a matter of 1-3 hours, depending on how much time you spend for kernel configuration. X, Gnome, KDE, and so on are not "Gentoo", but the Window Manager and/or Dektop Environment you chose.
wizardaeon wrote:
I give up. I would really like to try Gentoo out. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, I managed to get Arch Linux running fine. I just dont understand why Gentoo cant be as simple, and why cant there be a graphical installer.
Never ever compare a source based meta-distribution with a binary distribution. It never works out. And you have a "graphical installer", see the handbook above. That's all you can have on such a matter, which has been discussed too many times already. In short: There is absolutely no possibility to have a GUI Installation Wizard without taking flexibility away from gentoos users and force decisions upon them they are used to make on their own.
wizardaeon wrote:
I am not a computer programmer. I am a Windows technician. I wanted a stable, secure alternative to Windows, so I chose Linux. Theres alot of great Linux distros out there but Im beginning to question, "why gentoo". I dont see the point of a Distro that takes extreme technical knowledge of linux just to use. Maybe I didnt read a disclaimer somewhere.
No. You didn't understand what gentoo is good for. And that's why there is a handbook.
Handbook chapter 1, Section 1.a: " Gentoo is a fast, modern metadistribution with a clean and flexible design. Gentoo is built around free software and doesn't hide from its users what is beneath the hood. Portage, the package maintenance system which Gentoo uses, is written in Python, meaning you can easily view and modify the source code. Gentoo's packaging system uses source code (although support for precompiled packages is included too) and configuring Gentoo happens through regular textfiles. In other words, openness everywhere.

It is very important that you understand that choices are what makes Gentoo run. We try not to force you onto anything you don't like. If you feel like we do, please bugreport it.
"
wizardaeon wrote:
I wasted 7 hours of my time I will never get back, and I am very unlikely to try installing Gentoo again
If you think that learning is a waste of time, then good bye.
But I really hope that if you like to learn, and there is much to learn when using gentoo, you might consider starting again - by reading the handbook! ;)
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bammbamm808
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no coder either, and I've never had as much trouble installing Gentoo. I've done it a few times over the last 12 years. (no more than 6, and not all on the same machine). It's not that hard, but either you want it bad enough to slow down, take the time to go over what you've done and seek help here, or you can complain and quit. I think Gentoo is worth the time, and you'll learn stuff everytime there's an issue, that better equips you for the next time. Patience, and try again. Ask some specific questions, get some help here.
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HungGarTiger
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: really need a graphical installer Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
In Linux we do not reinstall, we fix the problem.

wizardaeon wrote:
I am a Windows technician.


:lol:

But seriously, Gentoo might not be the right distro for you if you're not into fixing the issue or learning where you went wrong
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moisespedro
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo installation was pretty straigth-forward. The only problem I had was that I forgot to install my video card drivers before leaving the chroot and rebooting. Other than that was just me following the handbook. I installed it 3 times this week and last time took me like 3 hours (from 5 to8pm) to get from the livecd to a bare XFCE desktop. It is not that hard (actually not hard at all). And I am a linux noob myself.
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Greens
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The handbook is a bit verbose. Not saying that's a bad thing whatsoever, but if you already know the install process you can skip over a very large amount of it.

Stage3 install is basically

Partition disc
Download and un-archive "gentoo" to the disk.
Chroot in
Minor config file edit
Compile/install kernel
Minor config file edit including the bootloader's.
Reboot into gentoo.

Getting graphic drivers and X to work is a different story. There's wiki pages for all major graphic drivers, proprietary and free, and a page for how to install X.

Honestly, I stuck with gentoo as my distro of choice because it "just works" more than any distro I've used, the devs seem to make good decisions, and I like the amount of software in the repos.

I have a far easier time changing things around if I've set them up myself, then have someone do it for me and then try to learn about it from there. Ironically simplicity is why I like gentoo.
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