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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: kde-4.11.2 delayed, problems? Reply with quote

Just curious, since generally for many years on the kde monthly point release updates/bug fixes Gentoo has gotten ebuilds in ~Arch in a day or two.

Going into the second week now since the Oct.1 kde-4.11.2 release announcement, and still nothing in portage.

I was wondering if there was actually a pretty major 4.11.2 problem(s) holding things up?

Come to think of it, even most of the binary distros I usually keep up with haven't put out new 4.11.2 packages yet, so that makes me wonder even more about what's going on.

Anyone have any info? I checked at kde.org yesterday, and found no mention of a major problem.
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acarstoiu
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second this question. What is holding back KDE 4.11.2, assuming it is of a technical nature?
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

acarstoiu wrote:
I second this question. What is holding back KDE 4.11.2, assuming it is of a technical nature?

I assume the only thing missing is a bug which begs for a version bump.
There was nothing deeply patched on the way 4.11.1-to-4.11.2 ....
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem that I know of, just bigger than usual ebuild changes that are tested before pushed to the tree.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I just updated my Arch Linux partition, and got 4.11.2 (updated from 4.10.5- guess I had neglected Arch Linux for a while).

Anyway, it's working perfectly so far, so I guess there isn't any major kde-4.11.2 problem, per se. :)

Looking forward to the Gentoo ebuilds.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944 wrote:
Looking forward to the Gentoo ebuilds.

Some reintroduced feature should please a specific audience...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
wrc1944 wrote:
Looking forward to the Gentoo ebuilds.

Some reintroduced feature should please a specific audience...


Does that mean that semantic-desktop useflag makes a return?
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N8Fear wrote:
Quote:
Does that mean that semantic-desktop useflag makes a return?


Please tell me you're kidding, right? :roll:
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=log
the main work was done >3 days ago :)
And it is not only ONE specific group of people (don't want the crap that nepomuk is on my kde desktop), but also people like me who want to be able to only run kcachegrind without the whole rest of dependencies due to PDEPEND on nepomuk* ;)
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just synced one of my Gentoo installs, and the 4.11.2 ebuilds are there, but these packages have added the semantic USE flag when I run emerge -upD @world.

kdelibs
kactivities
kget
gwenview
plasma-workspace
dolphin
kdebase-runtime-meta


When I add the -semantic-desktop USE flag globally to make.conf, I get this, so it appears that portage is indicating that flag is definitely back. :roll:

Code:
The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.11.2-r1
# required by kde-base/kget-4.11.2-r1
# required by kde-base/kdenetwork-meta-4.11.2
# required by @selected
# required by @world (argument)
>=kde-base/kdelibs-4.11.2-r1 semantic-desktop


Guess I'll remove the -semantic-desktop entry in make.conf, and go ahead for now on all my Gentoo installs, but I have my concerns. I thought we were rid of this according to the dilfridge blog discussion of a few months ago. http://dilfridge.blogspot.com/2013/05/news-from-201305-gentoo-kde-team-meeting.html

There, he says
Quote:
So far we've provided the useflag "semantic-desktop" which in particular controls the nepomuk functionality. Some components of KDE require this functionality unconditionally, and if you try to build without it, bugs and build failures may occur. In addition, by now it is easily and reliably possible to disable e.g. the file indexer at runtime. So, we've decided that starting with KDE 4.11 we will remove the useflag and hard-enable the functionality and the required dependencies in the ebuilds. The changes are being done already in the KDE overlay in the live ebuilds (which build upstream git master and form the templates for the upcoming 4.11 releases).


For those wishing to get into the weeds about this stuff, check out a log of a kde herd meeting. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20130523.txt
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Last edited by wrc1944 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kdepim without semantic-desktop in kdelibs just makes no sense.

On the other hand, before the major changes, kdepimlibs wouldn't've been the only part wanting kdelibs with semantic-desktop. Remember the rage when dolphin started to insist on semantic-desktop? ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now in 4.11.2, plasma-workspace requires semantic-desktop. It is one of the packages that depend on kdepimlibs.

I think I'll hold on on updating for now.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do realise that it depended on kdepimlibs before already? Only now the use flag is visible...

@Yamakuzure: dolphin only insisted on semantic-desktop for a short period of beta ebuilds, because it would fail to build otherwise. A bug that was fixed upstream before release.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that kdepimlibs insists on semantic-desktop, which means that packages that require kdepimlibs, such as plasma-workspace, now require semantic-desktop packages to be pulled in too. As plasma-workspace is an even more crucial package than dolphin, you essentially can't build KDE without semantic-desktop on at least some packages.

Oh, and now I notice kdelibs wants semantic-desktop too.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that was the same already with 4.11.1... only you didn't see the semantic-desktop use flag...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's one thing to not have the semantic-desktop use flag at all and pull in the packages even if won't be used and quite another to have the semantic-desktop be "optional" while being mandatory. What is the point with a use flag that cannot be turned off? It just engenders false hope, soon to be dashed.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it can be turned off, just not for all configs.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerdanel wrote:
What is the point with a use flag that cannot be turned off?

Devs threw a bone to a dog. It does not matter that the flag can't be turned off... We now have a flag and we should shut up. :evil:
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, very good bone indead:
Thanx Gentoo maintainers!
... htop shows a lot less of semantic mysql etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Yeah, very good bone indead:
Thanx Gentoo maintainers!
... htop shows a lot less of semantic mysql etc.

What "htop shows a lot less of semantic" means? You have in past 5 "semantic" processes, and now they are only 2 or even 1?
The purpose of this flag is to prevent the semantic-related packages installation, not to hide some processes from htop output.
If you even have no any semantic processes running, but you have at least one package installed - this means that flag was ignored.
Really good bone.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why Gentoo maintainers didn't want to support this USE a while ago was:
Upstream mixed kdelibs with all its functions with semantic-desktop: a lot of time-outs to wait for. This mustn't if kdelibs has sementic-desktop.

For me as a user this means:
Yes, it had to be installed into kdelibs. But if it sleeps as inactivated bits on my harddisk, because all of the other ebuilds I could deactivate semantic-desktop. And I am happy.
Though a "bone" but a nice one.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
Nerdanel wrote:
What is the point with a use flag that cannot be turned off?

Devs threw a bone to a dog. It does not matter that the flag can't be turned off...

But it can be turned off, just not for all configs.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, this flag's purpose is preventing some packages to be installed. Not to give ability to deactivate some processes.
Devs and maintainers says that KDE heavily depends on semantic stuffs and it hardcoded in KDE sources and can't be easy deactivated by USE flag. It is not true. KDE can be compiled without all these stuffs just fine. No need to edit sources. The only thing that should be done is removing dependencies from ebuilds. Nothing more, it's enough

Quote:
But it can be turned off, just not for all configs

For gnome desktop? Or for headless server?
Can this flag be turned off for kde profile?
Can I "eselect profile set 6" and build kde without semantic stuffs?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent news: the ball is in our court now, to make whatever minor adjustments are needed and to file bugs with patches to ebuilds, as yamakuzure has done for kdeplasma-addons (since kdepimlibs has the flag now.)

I'd like to say "thanks" to the devs for listening.
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