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queen
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Posts: 1512

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: fan works all the time Reply with quote

Hello

I have a problem with the fans. It always work, even though there isn't a justification for it (at least in my opinion). Just for simple browsing and shell (even when not running emerge). The temperature sometimes reaches 90 C. It's a new laptop with a good cpu. I would like to understand what's wrong, how can I control it, improve, tweak.

Here are some settings about acpi:
Code:
 grep -i acpi /usr/src/linux/.config
# Power management and ACPI options
CONFIG_ACPI=y
CONFIG_ACPI_SLEEP=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_PROCFS is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_PROCFS_POWER is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_EC_DEBUGFS is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_PROC_EVENT is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_AC=y
CONFIG_ACPI_BATTERY=y
CONFIG_ACPI_BUTTON=y
CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO=y
CONFIG_ACPI_FAN=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_DOCK is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_PROCESSOR=y
CONFIG_ACPI_HOTPLUG_CPU=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_PROCESSOR_AGGREGATOR is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_THERMAL=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_CUSTOM_DSDT is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_BLACKLIST_YEAR=0
# CONFIG_ACPI_DEBUG is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_PCI_SLOT is not set
CONFIG_ACPI_CONTAINER=y
# CONFIG_ACPI_SBS is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_HED is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_BGRT is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_APEI is not set
# CONFIG_X86_ACPI_CPUFREQ is not set
CONFIG_PNPACPI=y
CONFIG_ATA_ACPI=y
# CONFIG_PATA_ACPI is not set
# ACPI drivers
# ACPI drivers
CONFIG_SENSORS_ACPI_POWER=m
# CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_WMI is not set
# CONFIG_ACPI_CMPC is not set


I have lm_sensors installed.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the temperature is reaching 90C, then there is definitely justification for the fans to be running at full speed. In my opinion, that temperature represents a serious failure of your cooling system. I have never seen a well maintained laptop get that high even under extended CPU load with all cores running at full.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity, what is the CPU load when the temperature runs high? Maybe there is some runaway process for instance?
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queen
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
If the temperature is reaching 90C, then there is definitely justification for the fans to be running at full speed. In my opinion, that temperature represents a serious failure of your cooling system. I have never seen a well maintained laptop get that high even under extended CPU load with all cores running at full.


I ran only once with all the 8 cores (4 cores x 2 threads). And it was full load. That I can understand. I don't have history of the cpu load. Will start to check more. It just puzzled me that once I turn the laptop on, the fan starts working. It's not normal.

Right now the temp is 73C/78C (93%), the fans are running (since I booted). All I do right now is some browsing, ftp (writing to disk). Nothing special. Is this temp normal? As you can see below it's just 2.2% usage.

top shows:
Code:
 top - 01:12:10 up  2:48,  9 users,  load average: 1.18, 0.54, 0.33
Tasks: 131 total,   1 running, 130 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu(s):  2.2 us,  0.8 sy,  0.0 ni, 96.8 id,  0.2 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
KiB Mem:   8075988 total,  4879092 used,  3196896 free,    29588 buffers
KiB Swap: 16777212 total,        0 used, 16777212 free,  3875904 cached

  PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND                                                                                                                   
 4413 queen     20   0 1313820 525576  47428 S 9.643 6.508   8:03.29 firefox                                                                                                                   
 4283 queen     20   0  909728 102060  36096 S 4.655 1.264   9:39.56 plasma-desktop                                                                                                             
 4030 root      20   0  131560  51728  32116 S 4.323 0.641   4:28.14 X                                                                                                                         
 4254 queen     20   0  631496  62520  34304 S 2.993 0.774   2:47.35 kwin                                                                                                                       
 4348 queen     20   0  447164  40252  20328 S 1.663 0.498   0:55.81 konsole                                                                                                                   
 4923 queen     20   0   58244   4328   3084 S 0.998 0.054   0:35.34 lftp                                                                                                                       
 4294 queen    20   0  689512  52136  28284 S 0.333 0.646   0:01.97 lancelot                                                                                                                   
 5879 root      20   0       0      0      0 S 0.333 0.000   0:03.54 kworker/u:2 


So, maybe I have some misconfiguration with acpi or something else? I want to run in 2 weeks the gpu, which really requires intensive work. I wonder what will happen to the temp then. I would like to solve this issue. The kernel configuration is OK?

Code:

cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 0
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 0
initial apicid  : 0
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 1
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 1
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 2
initial apicid  : 2
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 2
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 2
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 4
initial apicid  : 4
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 3
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 3
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 6
initial apicid  : 6
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 4
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 0
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 1
initial apicid  : 1
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 5
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 1
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 3
initial apicid  : 3
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 6
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 2
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 5
initial apicid  : 5
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor       : 7
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 58
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz
stepping        : 9
microcode       : 0x12
cpu MHz         : 2294.815
cache size      : 6144 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 8
core id         : 3
cpu cores       : 4
apicid          : 7
initial apicid  : 7
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms
bogomips        : 4589.63
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:


Code:
 
lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller (rev 09)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor PCI Express Root Port (rev 09)
[color=darkblue][b]00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller (rev 09)[/b][/color]
00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family USB xHCI Host Controller (rev 04)
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family MEI Controller #1 (rev 04)
00:1a.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller #2 (rev 04)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 1 (rev c4)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 2 (rev c4)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller #1 (rev 04)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation HM76 Express Chipset LPC Controller (rev 04)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 7 Series Chipset Family 6-port SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 04)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family SMBus Controller (rev 04)
[color=darkblue][b]01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Thames XT [Radeon HD 7670M][/b][/color]
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 09)
03:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9485 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not consider that temperature to be normal. I believe mid-70s was achievable on my last laptop only when I ran a long running emerge that held all cores at full usage for several minutes.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does "zegrep 'CPU(FREQ|_IDLE)' /proc/config.gz" say?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
What does "zegrep 'CPU(FREQ|_IDLE)' /proc/config.gz" say?


Code:

CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_CPU_IDLE_WAIT=y
# CONFIG_X86_PCC_CPUFREQ is not set
# CONFIG_X86_ACPI_CPUFREQ is not set
CONFIG_CPU_IDLE=y
CONFIG_CPU_IDLE_GOV_LADDER=y
CONFIG_CPU_IDLE_GOV_MENU=y


As I can see from cat /proc/cpuinfo in the Power Management there are no parameters. Is this ok? Should I set something?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

# CONFIG_X86_ACPI_CPUFREQ is not set

How you are managing the frequency?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
# CONFIG_X86_ACPI_CPUFREQ is not set

How you are managing the frequency?


Well, I didn't. I wasn't aware of it at all. I am noob on these points. Will set it. Are there more things that I need to set?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make ondemand governor default and you should be good. For a laptop you may also consider using powersave sometimes, so enable that, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Make ondemand governor default and you should be good. For a laptop you may also consider using powersave sometimes, so enable that, too.


Ok. I did that. It turned out that it was already selected. I removed only the userspace governor and conservative cpufreq governor.
rebooted into the new kernel.
Yet the fan still works all the time, even when the laptop was cold.

Probably the problem is in other place. Any ideas where?

Also I see that max temp appears to change. I don't know why this happens. Right now it shows 70C/80C. Other times it shows 56C/68C. Why is that?

I think that acpi doesn't work properly. I can't believe that after 8 hours of shut down the temp showed me 56C.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is not a fan or kernel acpi options issue.

At first you have to check: may be radiator is not tight to the processor.
At second, it may be sensor failure. This case fan will rotate at high speed even CPU itself is cool. The fact, that fan starts at high speed, indirectly confirms this.

Any way you need to remove the cover and make sure whether the CPU temperature so high or not.
Of course, you need to have some basic experience in NB disassembling.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
I think it is not a fan or kernel acpi options issue.

At first you have to check: may be radiator is not tight to the processor.
At second, it may be sensor failure. This case fan will rotate at high speed even CPU itself is cool. The fact, that fan starts at high speed, indirectly confirms this.

Any way you need to remove the cover and make sure whether the CPU temperature so high or not.
Of course, you need to have some basic experience in NB disassembling.


I opened few times an older laptop. This laptop, I didn't open yet. It's just 1 year old. Will open it at some point, to clean also the dust that probably piled up.

How can I check sensor failure?

My indication that acpi doesn't report correct the temp because the laptop was shut down 8 hours. There is no way in the world that immediately after boot, I get 56C and the fan start to work. I have in the kernel set cpu overheating reporting set. I never got an alarm that cpu is overheated.

Yet, the air that goes out of the fan is to some extent hot. I have a friend that has windows with exactly the same laptop and the fan doesn't work all the time.

This is the output of sensors-detect

Code:


cat /etc/conf.d/lm_sensors
# Generated by sensors-detect on Wed Sep 25 17:49:34 2013
# This file is sourced by /etc/init.d/lm_sensors and defines the modules to
# be loaded/unloaded.
#
# The format of this file is a shell script that simply defines variables:
# HWMON_MODULES for hardware monitoring driver modules, and optionally
# BUS_MODULES for any required bus driver module (for example for I2C or SPI).

# Load modules at startup
LOADMODULES=yes

# Initialize sensors at startup
INITSENSORS=yes

HWMON_MODULES="coretemp"

# For compatibility reasons, modules are also listed individually as variables
#    MODULE_0, MODULE_1, MODULE_2, etc.
# Please note that the numbers in MODULE_X must start at 0 and increase in
# steps of 1. Any number that is missing will make the init script skip the
# rest of the modules. Use MODULE_X_ARGS for arguments.
#
# You should use BUS_MODULES and HWMON_MODULES instead if possible.

MODULE_0=coretemp
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creaker
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queen wrote:

How can I check sensor failure?


Remove a cover and touch CPU. Is CPU really hot, as shown in BIOS? Btw did you checked what a temperature shown in BIOS? It is far more important indicator than the temperature shown by lm-sensors.

queen wrote:

There is no way in the world that immediately after boot, I get 56C and the fan start to work.


Can you explain, what did you meant when you've written "boot"? Is it a system boot? If yes, CPU is quite likely to heat up to 56C during OS boot, especially if it has a bad thermal contact with a radiator.
If you meant "immediately after power on", the only reason of this is sensor failure.

Anyway, the only thing that can help to determine where a problem came from is checking for real CPU temp.

Quote:
I have a friend that has windows with exactly the same laptop and the fan doesn't work all the time.

if your friend has the same laptop, does it guarantees that your laptop never will fail?
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Intel Core i3-2120 / 4Gb RAM / 250Gb HDD / NVidia GeForce-550Ti
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queen
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="creaker"][quote="queen"]

Quote:

Remove a cover and touch CPU. Is CPU really hot, as shown in BIOS? Btw did you checked what a temperature shown in BIOS? It is far more important indicator than the temperature shown by lm-sensors.


Will check in the bios.


Quote:

Can you explain, what did you meant when you've written "boot"? Is it a system boot? If yes, CPU is quite likely to heat up to 56C during OS boot, especially if it has a bad thermal contact with a radiator.


I meant after boot of the OS.

I read now the acpi gentoo guide. Do you suggest to use cpufreqd?
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