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Why do people still fly the Confederate flag?
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Prenj wrote:
See what I did there?
Yes, you're ignoring history. I'm not arguing in favor of slavery, I'm arguing in favor of understanding what actually happened.

I'm arguing that there is no magical interpretation of events that will make south not slavers. In the same way that one day we (if there is any "we" in future) will see current economical paradigm as slavery and detrimental. Those in south are just clinging to their own image of themselves as being misunderstood and unjustly treated.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I can see no magical interpretation where anyone said the south wasn't in support of slavery.
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
And I can see no magical interpretation where anyone said the south wasn't in support of slavery.

No, but there was an attempt to avoid that fact and divert it to some bullshit excuse about economics and how people don't understand history.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just like you're ignoring history.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
pjp wrote:
And I can see no magical interpretation where anyone said the south wasn't in support of slavery.

No, but there was an attempt to avoid that fact and divert it to some bullshit excuse about economics and how people don't understand history.

If the entirety of the civil war was slavery then why is it that not all of the slave states seceded? Missouri, Kentucky, and Maryland never did secede. Why did it take the threat of an illegal war for the final four states to join the cause? Why didn't the Lincoln Administration proclaim slavery illegal?

There is no attempt to divert or excuse. But it was a much more complex than "Free The Slaves!" And the most common reason for that young man fighting under the Stars and Bars battle flag was that his farm and home was invaded by a conquering army. Which is something you can understand.

No one can blame you for not knowing the finer points of events in the US 150 years ago. :wink:
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
And the most common reason for that young man fighting under the Stars and Bars battle flag was that his farm and home was invaded by a conquering army. Which is something you can understand.

That I can understand and identify with, if I was living there at the time, I'd do the same. But I would probably call the fat fucks of politicians who cooked the whole thing for fat fucks, in the same manner I call those who cooked where I live even worse. ^^
Don't think I'd have confederate flag on the wall. I was never much into flags anyway.
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
the most common reason for that young man fighting under the Stars and Bars battle flag was that his farm and home was invaded by a conquering army.


But that young man was a long way from the people who set the war in motion and they were arguing about slavery.
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no good reason whatsoever to fly the confederate flag. Or the union flag. Rotten to the core, both of 'em.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Prenj wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
The least savage way of all is self-destruction.

Did I buzz too close? :lol:

I don't know what you mean. I'm just pointing out a logical flaw. If you chose a path through life simply based on minimization of the harm you do to others, you'd quickly arrive at the conclusion you should just make yourself vanish. So, I question whether "finding a less savage way", in isolation, is admirable or a valid objective. It's probably the part of that phrase that's missing which is more important -- a less savage way to what -- and if the "what" were a decent ideal to begin with, we wouldn't need to find a less savage way to do it.

All life on this planet grows out of solar energy, and for the most part by recycling the material that is already here. It's a mechanically closed loop system. The species within support each other, not by choice but by mechanics of their evolutionary path. Among those species we are aware. We can attempt to do differently, or just be monkeys and fuck it all up. We are currently riding the "fuck it" train, and results are thus.
It becomes savage and regressive when we frolic in it, being the one who has the power for the day, and not even attempt to do better. All you are giving me are excuses.

I'm not giving excuses. I'm pointing out that you're wallowing in your own pig-sty of negativity. There is more to human life than minimizing the harm we do, unless you believe it's impossible for humans to do good (and by "doing good" I specifically do not mean simply avoiding doing harm).
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
There is no good reason whatsoever to fly the confederate flag. Or the union flag. Rotten to the core, both of 'em.

The flag of Virginia is pretty cool. Have you ever taken a good look at it?
http://mattermore.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/virginia-flag.gif

The Benin Empire had one of the coolest, though (before they were massacred, enslaved, and colonized by Europeans, that is).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Flag_of_the_Benin_Empire.svg
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