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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize for my verbosity.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
pjp wrote:
Are you aware that there is pressure / a culture to declare troops "fit for duty" so they can be sent back to their unit?
no
Now you are.

IMO any medical judgement made within that context is beyond suspect.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
pjp wrote:
Are you aware that there is pressure / a culture to declare troops "fit for duty" so they can be sent back to their unit?
no
Now you are.

IMO any medical judgement made within that context is beyond suspect.
Would it make any difference if he'd been in for 10 years and was re-examined multiple times? He also passed a mental test for being a sniper.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue is with the possible damage done during the deployments, not years prior. So no, I don't think "10 years" helps. It is like trusting the tobacco industry on their medical findings related to their products, or the oil & gas industry regarding fracking.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
pjp wrote:
Are you aware that there is pressure / a culture to declare troops "fit for duty" so they can be sent back to their unit?
no
Now you are.

What's your source for this information?

I'm sure there is pressure not to unnecessarily classify people non-deployable, but that makes sense and it's always been the case. You seem to be saying that there is pressure to classify people as deployable despite them being unfit for combat.

So, you must have a source or some credible, unbiased, fact-based opinion. Either that or you're basing it on personal experience, in which case I'd ask what your psychological standard is for being "fit for combat" and what percentage of the general population you think meets that standard.

I think it's more of a basic problem that combat truly sucks. Then, on top of that, it's a problem that psychology is a fuzzy field of medicine. It's simply not well-understood, and it's dependent on a subject's ability and willingness to accurately and honestly describe their subjective experience.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

News coverage, mostly since Iraq / Afghanistan. The military's behavior of ignoring mental health issues, etc. I'm surprised you aren't more aware of it. Maybe being in Colorado Springs with 5 military installations it receives more coverage?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
News coverage, mostly since Iraq / Afghanistan. The military's behavior of ignoring mental health issues, etc. I'm surprised you aren't more aware of it. Maybe being in Colorado Springs with 5 military installations it receives more coverage?

Must be.

I'm aware they've been called out for not providing enough care. I hadn't heard anything about improperly classifying mentally ill people as deployable. Can you provide an example of such coverage?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not without searching. This is obviously one of those unlikely to be provable issues. But the mentality of ignoring and ostracizing over mental health issues is well documented.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's fair to say the warrior ethos discourages seeking help for mental health issues and probably discourages proper sensitivity to the issues and care of the people. Although I think that's changing.

I'm not sure it's fair to say there's "pressure" to declare unfit people fit for duty.

I think it's also important to note that most people who are technically "mentally ill" are not unfit for duty. Pretty much everybody has a diagnosable degree of neurosis or some disorder of one type or another, but clinically it doesn't exist until they or somebody else says it's problematic.

In fact, it's my theory that most people who are judged "highly successful" by society's standards achieve that because they are mentally ill (but we're judging them based on their "successes" and not whatever problems they don't acknowledge or make visible). I think most "Type A personalities" are actually neurotic. :lol:
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is a terrorist. This guy was on a mission. It is that simple.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I think it's also important to note that most people who are technically "mentally ill" are not unfit for duty.
There is "mentally ill" and there is mentally ill. Given the high risk involved, pretending it doesn't exist because of an "ethos" is a systemic choice of playing a type of Russian roulette. Fortunately, the attitudes are changing.
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