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Greens
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: NEXT evil: Gnome3, systemd, Pulseaudio Reply with quote

I have seen these evils. LORD God be my witness.

in Christ Jesus
Amen
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notageek
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF?!

Do you also like movies about gladiators?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh, I run them and things work.
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Ahenobarbi
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Meh, I run them and things work.


++
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahenobarbi wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Meh, I run them and things work.
++
I'm starting to see a theme about these applications

Do you think Linux is becoming Windows-ized?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Ahenobarbi wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Meh, I run them and things work.
++
I'm starting to see a theme about these applications

Do you think Linux is becoming Windows-ized?

Are you implying that it's a bad thing that the Linux desktop doesn't suck anymore?
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mardok45 wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Ahenobarbi wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Meh, I run them and things work.
++
I'm starting to see a theme about these applications

Do you think Linux is becoming Windows-ized?

Are you implying that it's a bad thing that the Linux desktop doesn't suck anymore?

I think he is implying that the way out is not to suck as windows does, but rather become something new.

That being said, I like my new macbook air. I haven't enjoyed technology like this since oh, I don't know, 80's :)
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mardok45 wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Ahenobarbi wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Meh, I run them and things work.
++
I'm starting to see a theme about these applications

Do you think Linux is becoming Windows-ized?

Are you implying that it's a bad thing that the Linux desktop doesn't suck anymore?
I don't remember it sucking. Every person I have introduced to it has found it very easy to use.

Do not confuse instability with usability
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Mardok45
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Mardok45 wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Ahenobarbi wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Meh, I run them and things work.
++
I'm starting to see a theme about these applications

Do you think Linux is becoming Windows-ized?

Are you implying that it's a bad thing that the Linux desktop doesn't suck anymore?
I don't remember it sucking. Every person I have introduced to it has found it very easy to use.

Do not confuse instability with usability

Usability, I think it's pleasant.

Instability... http://xkcd.com/963/
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smartass
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a matter of which approach is better, more usable or stable.
The real important thing is that the end-users should be able to choose their own software that they want's to use.

Instead, the RH package is being slowly forced onto everyone, because the core projects they are using for such practices and the projects that use the API of the core projects didn't have the balls to stand up and say "No, we are free software, we want to provide users with a choice" and they were taken over. The more projects join them, feeling they cannot resist, the less projects will be brave enough to resist.

The GNU project stood up against that a long time ago and now the same thing is happening in the name of greed of RH.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer to think of it as "being forced into everyone".

Just wait until they get the Windows Registry in there. Speaking of which, is anyone here familiar with the etcd project? :lol:
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to see a Linux Registry based on base64-encoded JSON. :twisted:

BTW, the Windows Registry hive shell (for Linux) is quite useful.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Just wait until they get the Windows Registry in there.

Ever heard of GConf?

Oh wait, Gnome CADT syndrome. It's "DConf" now. Gotta rewrite 'em all!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair the idea of the registry is a sound one, its just the implementation and leverage within windows that was derp.

I can see why gnome did it with gconf and dconf but would only be valid for a system wide leverage and is prob part of the sysd pa and gnome takeover attempt along with all the kits
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
To be fair the idea of the registry is a sound one


a binary arcane mess that easily breaks and is hard to fix?

Yes, much better than a bunch of easily read, commented and edited config files. Much, much better.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Naib wrote:
To be fair the idea of the registry is a sound one


a binary arcane mess that easily breaks and is hard to fix?

Yes, much better than a bunch of easily read, commented and edited config files. Much, much better.
nice cherry pick on the quote. As per the part you conveniently cut... The is is with the implementation and leaverage. A binary reg is an implementation derp

Binary is fine, mysql for such info. Some bespoke format for ovsurity isn't
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
Naib wrote:
To be fair the idea of the registry is a sound one


a binary arcane mess that easily breaks and is hard to fix?

Yes, much better than a bunch of easily read, commented and edited config files. Much, much better.
nice cherry pick on the quote. As per the part you conveniently cut... The is is with the implementation and leaverage. A binary reg is an implementation derp


so what is wrong with a registry in form of /etc and config files?
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who doesn't like a registry doesn't know what they are doing.

A registry with an excellent implementation is a fantastic idea.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Anyone who doesn't like a registry doesn't know what they are doing.

A registry with an excellent implementation is a fantastic idea.


why?
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Anyone who doesn't like a registry doesn't know what they are doing.

A registry with an excellent implementation is a fantastic idea.
why?
Don't fuck with me, I've just spent 54 hours with Germans who love Turkish people. They're all artists btw.

A central place is the ideal place to have the options to change certain system properties. It is a brilliant idea for no other reason but for the fact that serious problems can be fixed without the aid of a terminal. That means 90% of linux users are happy
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Anyone who doesn't like a registry doesn't know what they are doing.

A registry with an excellent implementation is a fantastic idea.
Tell that to the Jews. :P
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Anyone who doesn't like a registry doesn't know what they are doing.

A registry with an excellent implementation is a fantastic idea.
Tell that to the Jews. :P
Any person who says they are jewish when they know they are going to be killed deserves what they get. "Are you jewish" "oy yoy yoy no I'm protestant". Bingo you and your family live.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless the registry is first created, then abused.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Unless the registry is first created, then abused.
Then you are right. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Anyone who doesn't like a registry doesn't know what they are doing.

A registry with an excellent implementation is a fantastic idea.
why?
Don't fuck with me, I've just spent 54 hours with Germans who love Turkish people. They're all artists btw.

:lol:

cokehabit wrote:
A central place is the ideal place to have the options to change certain system properties. It is a brilliant idea for no other reason but for the fact that serious problems can be fixed without the aid of a terminal. That means 90% of linux users are happy

There's no need for a one-off database for that sort of thing. That just creates a single point of failure. There's already a database built into Linux -- it's called a "filesystem". One of the ideas from Plan 9 that was good was "everything's a file". There's no reason the etc/ hierarchy couldn't be formalized and standardized (making it more like sysfs or procfs for example).

Now, granted, those are virtual filesystems and a kernel interface, but there's no reason the same concept couldn't be applied to a persistent file hierarchy. The main requirements as I see them are:

a. universally accessible to all programs and users
b. subject to the system's existing methods of security and access control
c. no single point of failure (multiple methods of access and modification, human readable)
d. easily network accessible (for centralized system management, auditing, etc.)

Given that, jamming it into a dbms (especially one that creates a BLOB of it) makes no sense. It's not like this is high-volume transaction data or something that needs to be subjected to unpredictable queries that consolidate, sort, filter, and summarize data.

It seems to me that we're ignoring the architectural principles that make Linux better than Windows and instead pulling a foolish "Monkey See, Monkey Do".

Yeah, the existing etc/ is a mess, but it could be cleaned up and standardized and turned into something like sysfs or procfs. A set of preferred utilities for editing and checking could be provided, to help maintain its structure, but it would still be a filesystem and thereby provide all the inherent benefits (my requirements a - d ). It could even be loaded into a virtual filesystem for realtime use and backed against something else on disk.
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