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petrjanda
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Her name is Chelsea Manning. Reply with quote

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/08/accepting-chelsea-manning.html
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did someone like that join the Army? He's obviously unstable and fragile.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She's Just as hot as Chelsea Clinton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
She's Just as hot as Chelsea Clinton


You mean Chelsea Hubble?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Why did someone like that join the Army? He's obviously unstable and fragile.
The second part is for the military to figure out and deny their entrance. Sometimes people join thinking they have little else to choose.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
She's Just as hot as Chelsea Clinton


You mean Chelsea Hubble?
I have no clue who the man is but I've heard the only thing with a wide angle lens big enough to picture Chelsea Clinton is the Hubble Telescope
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Muso wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
She's Just as hot as Chelsea Clinton


You mean Chelsea Hubble?
I have no clue who the man is but I've heard the only thing with a wide angle lens big enough to picture Chelsea Clinton is the Hubble Telescope


Webb Hubble. Chelsea does look more like a fusion of he and Hillary than a fusion of "Hill-Billy". Also, Bill Clinton claimed to have had mumps as a teen, so that should make him sterile, no?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Muso wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
She's Just as hot as Chelsea Clinton


You mean Chelsea Hubble?
I have no clue who the man is but I've heard the only thing with a wide angle lens big enough to picture Chelsea Clinton is the Hubble Telescope


Webb Hubble. Chelsea does look more like a fusion of he and Hillary than a fusion of "Hill-Billy". Also, Bill Clinton claimed to have had mumps as a teen, so that should make him sterile, no?
If there is a definition of the opposite of sterile it is Bill Clinton. What a legend :D
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
If there is a definition of the opposite of sterile it is Bill Clinton. What a legend :D


Perfectly functional guns can still shoot blanks. He only has the one child, and she doesn't look like him.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
If there is a definition of the opposite of sterile it is Bill Clinton. What a legend :D


Perfectly functional guns can still shoot blanks. He only has the one child, and she doesn't look like him.
Does she look like her mum?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick

Quote:
In an interview by Dorothy Rabinowitz for the Wall Street Journal editorial page, Broaddrick claimed that Clinton had told her not to worry about pregnancy, because childhood mumps had rendered him sterile.[4] The alleged incident occurred two years before Clinton's daughter with his wife Hillary Rodham was born.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is no evidence that his actions harmed a single US soldier.

But those guys who massacred those 11 helpless civilians are still roaming free.

Just like the torturers.

Just like the war criminals that turned the american legal system into a joke (Bush, Cheney).

But the one person who tried to show the american people how fucked up the system is, was rubber stamped a criminal.

Ridiculous.

http://www.tagesschau.de/kommentar/manning152.html

feed it into google trans.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick

Quote:
In an interview by Dorothy Rabinowitz for the Wall Street Journal editorial page, Broaddrick claimed that Clinton had told her not to worry about pregnancy, because childhood mumps had rendered him sterile.[4] The alleged incident occurred two years before Clinton's daughter with his wife Hillary Rodham was born.
I think the secret service have killed everyone to do with it
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wall Street Journal, NBC, and the Washington Post all reported Bill Clinton's rape of Brodderick as a serious allegation, before they were silenced. Now, it's difficult to find any references to the coverage.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that Bradley Manning was tortured in jail while awaiting trial, one can only hope that he might be pardoned and the sentence commuted to time served.

The gender confusion is an irrelevant sideshow to the real issue of governments acting in their own interests rather than the interests of the people they are supposed to represent.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
Given that Bradley Manning was tortured in jail while awaiting trial, one can only hope that he might be pardoned and the sentence commuted to time served.

My only complaint is that they took to long to bring it to trial. Every U.S. Citizen has a right to a speedy trial. There are precedents that define what a "speedy trial" is, and nobody considers multiple years of delay to be "speedy". I hope that was taken into account in his sentencing. I think it probably wasn't though: I figured he'd get about 20 years, and he got 35.

pantsonfire wrote:
The gender confusion is an irrelevant sideshow to the real issue of governments acting in their own interests rather than the interests of the people they are supposed to represent.

His gender identity disorder is not the central issue here at all, but it is important from another perspective; its mishandling is what started the security breakdown snowball rolling. The minute he sent a picture of himself in drag to a field grade officer, he should have been sent for a Psych Eval and assigned to a less sensitive position.

As to the "real issue", I don't see how what Manning released showed the government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry. Snowden has definitely done so, but Manning? I don't think so.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
My only complaint is that they took to long to bring it to trial. Every U.S. Citizen has a right to a speedy trial. There are precedents that define what a "speedy trial" is, and nobody considers multiple years of delay to be "speedy". I hope that was taken into account in his sentencing. I think it probably wasn't though: I figured he'd get about 20 years, and he got 35.

It wasn't only that it took too long; Manning was also subjected all manner of sadistic treatment.

Quote:
His gender identity disorder is not the central issue here at all, but it is important from another perspective; its mishandling is what started the security breakdown snowball rolling. The minute he sent a picture of himself in drag to a field grade officer, he should have been sent for a Psych Eval and assigned to a less sensitive position.

Yes. You are right.

Quote:
As to the "real issue", I don't see how what Manning released showed the government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry. Snowden has definitely done so, but Manning? I don't think so.

What manning revealed
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
My only complaint is that they took to long to bring it to trial. Every U.S. Citizen has a right to a speedy trial. There are precedents that define what a "speedy trial" is, and nobody considers multiple years of delay to be "speedy". I hope that was taken into account in his sentencing. I think it probably wasn't though: I figured he'd get about 20 years, and he got 35.

It wasn't only that it took too long; Manning was also subjected all manner of sadistic treatment.

I don't think so. You have to start the the baseline of typical American pre-trial confinement, which is your average county Jail. Ever seen what it's like inside a county jail? I don't think being treated like that is exceptional (a known mentally ill patient who has expressed suicidal thoughts being deprived of normal bedding, for example). I think it was the span of time over which he was in that limbo that was wrong.

dmitchell wrote:
Quote:
His gender identity disorder is not the central issue here at all, but it is important from another perspective; its mishandling is what started the security breakdown snowball rolling. The minute he sent a picture of himself in drag to a field grade officer, he should have been sent for a Psych Eval and assigned to a less sensitive position.

Yes. You are right.

I concur.

dmitchell wrote:
Quote:
As to the "real issue", I don't see how what Manning released showed the government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry. Snowden has definitely done so, but Manning? I don't think so.

What manning revealed

Some guy's blog? So full of wrongness. Where to being?

First of all, Snowden and Manning's revelations are not at all being treated the same way. Snowden's are recognized by the majority as being legitimate whistle-blowing and have spurred all kinds of legislative action. Manning's? Jack Shit.

Secondly, while the "collateral murder" video was new, the incident itself was not. It had already been widely reported in the news and thoroughly investigated, and the video added nothing to the discussion. More to the point, it did not show our government "acting in their own interests rather than the interests of the people they are supposed to represent". It showed idiots paid by the media to to wander around the middle of a battlefield, pretty much following and occupying the same position a bunch of insurgents had just been firing at U.S. forces from, getting shot. Did civilians who understood neither the context nor content of what they were looking at get upset by it? Of course, especially by the joyful hooting by the crew after they hit their target. Did it show the military doing something wrong? No; it showed the news-entertainment industry doing something wrong. Did it show the U.S. Government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry? Absolutely not, unless you believe U.S. troops shooting back is wrong.

Third, those "cablegate" revelations also do not show the U.S. government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry. All it did was reveal to other countries a bunch of the dirty dealings of our government with respect to those countries. One might argue that lying to and spying on other countries against the interests of the U.S. citizenry, but I think that would be a generally naive perspective. Revealing the cables is what was not in the interests of the U.S. citizenry.

Fourth, the issue of the U.S. "allowing" the Iraqi government to torture the prisoners we had handed over to them wasn't news either. This had already been in the press as well, and the answers didn't change. The answer was basically, "As you are seeing from our own reports, we've found evidence that some abuses are going on, and we've acted where we can, but there's only so much we can do. We have handed control of these prisoners over to Iraq, and we only have so much control over what they do with them." I think the response was reasonable. That answer never changed, and neither did the situation. The Iraqis are, I'm sure, still abusing some of their prisoners, and they probably always will be. More importantly, this also does not show the U.S. Government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry. It shows them working to disentangle their military forces from Iraq.

Fifth, the information in the leaks about the total numbers of deaths in Iraq agreed with what the U.S. government had told the public, and refuted the wildly overblown estimates being floated around by human rights activists at the time. This also did not show the U.S. Government acting against the interests of the U.S. citizenry. It showed them telling the truth.

Your blog buddy here also starts to blur the lines between what was actually in the material leaked by Manning and speculative fiction based on other sources apparently contained in his book he seems to be trying to promote by linking it to a topic of interest.

Manning was not a whistle-blower; he was a confused, frustrated, angry young man. Maybe you could choose to view him as a "whistle-blower" from the perspective of a "global citizen", but that would be bullshit because he was no "global citizen", he was a volunteer member of the United States Armed Forces. Also, he wasn't as morally and ethically motivated as he's led us to believe. He had the option at any time to declare himself a conscientious objector and never did. He was just trying to be destructive. Moreover, even if somebody did consider him a "global whistleblower", there are no "whistleblower protections" coming from any "global government", so that's pretty much meaningless and without bearing on his trial and sentencing.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Manning wanted to get into a women's prison for a long time period and you guys are just jealous.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
Actually, Manning wanted to get into a women's prison for a long time period and you guys are just jealous.

Nice fantasy. It bet it would get old after about a week or two, though. :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if Manning is now a woman who has had gay boyfriends, does that make her a fag hag?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So based on the article, if Manning's one biggest aspiration in life was to become female, it looks like he self-sabotaged by doing the few unlikely things that would make that impossible: join the military and commit a violation so extreme as to get you thrown in Leavenworth to age 60 or so (where he's unlikely ever to be provided gender reassignment surgeries and therapies). Leavenworth is like being in boot camp for the rest of your life (minus the physical exercise and training).

Of all the billions of paths his life might have taken, he ended up taking one of a handful that could deny him his dream. Any psychologist will tell you this is classic self-destruction born out of intense internal conflict. Had he really wanted, without conscious or subconconscious reservation, to become a woman, he did it wrong.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if this is true, it's really lame. before this, his narrative was that he was righteously fighting to defend against a corrupt government by outing the evil that murdered innocents. now his narrative is potentially that he was a drama queen trying to inflict the most damage he could because they wouldn't let him suck off his boyfriend in public.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching you guys worship at the throne of Bradley Manning is quite hilarious. l don't think you guys understand what it means, or what it's supposed to mean, to join the Armed Forces. In short, it's not about you or what you want. It's about what the larger organization wants. If you have a problem with that, stay out. It's that simple.

Now as for evidence that he caused harm, that in itself is a flawed argument because his leaks were published for public viewing. If I go on WikiLeaks and determine that a certain critical goods pass through base at 4:00 pm, and one day this convoy gets shredded by an IED, was it a lucky strike or did someone know something that was supposed to be kept confidential?

Which brings me to my next point about him being "tortured." I assume this is said because he was placed in solitary confinement. That, if you guys aren't aware, was done for his own protection. The infantry grunts in the brig are not going to appreciate a REMF handing out classified information that could potentially get them blown up.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Watching you guys worship at the throne of Bradley Manning is quite hilarious. l don't think you guys understand what it means, or what it's supposed to mean, to join the Armed Forces. In short, it's not about you or what you want. It's about what the larger organization wants. If you have a problem with that, stay out. It's that simple.

Now as for evidence that he caused harm, that in itself is a flawed argument because his leaks were published for public viewing. If I go on WikiLeaks and determine that a certain critical goods pass through base at 4:00 pm, and one day this convoy gets shredded by an IED, was it a lucky strike or did someone know something that was supposed to be kept confidential?

Which brings me to my next point about him being "tortured." I assume this is said because he was placed in solitary confinement. That, if you guys aren't aware, was done for his own protection. The infantry grunts in the brig are not going to appreciate a REMF handing out classified information that could potentially get them blown up.
So because you joined it it can do no wrong? My dad hated it, he was trained to be an animal and kill and that's what he did day-in day-out. Don't get me wrong, he is proud to have worn the beret but not what it made him into.

Bradsea Manning did what he thought was right in the greater scheme of things and although you may think it's wrong by the standards of the big boys club and they are screaming because he took the toys from their sandpit there are bigger consideration here like the moral and ethical implication not to the US but to the betterment of mankind as a whole.

Not only that but the army has brought this on itself by creating the furore around him/her. If the US wasn't so blasé about it's conduct around the world then there would never be any problem. What Manning brought to the fore was the not only US' total disrespect for the international community but also it's conduct it the wars it starts for the wrong reasons and continues to lie to it's own population about.
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