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Her name is Chelsea Manning.
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Muso
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
So because you joined it it can do no wrong? My dad hated it, he was trained to be an animal and kill and that's what he did day-in day-out. Don't get me wrong, he is proud to have worn the beret but not what it made him into.


Well, that's what happens when you join the women's auxiliary balloon corps.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
So because you joined it it can do no wrong? My dad hated it, he was trained to be an animal and kill and that's what he did day-in day-out. Don't get me wrong, he is proud to have worn the beret but not what it made him into.


Well, that's what happens when you join the women's auxiliary balloon corps.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Watching you guys worship at the throne of Bradley Manning is quite hilarious. l don't think you guys understand what it means, or what it's supposed to mean, to join the Armed Forces. In short, it's not about you or what you want. It's about what the larger organization wants. If you have a problem with that, stay out. It's that simple.

Now as for evidence that he caused harm, that in itself is a flawed argument because his leaks were published for public viewing. If I go on WikiLeaks and determine that a certain critical goods pass through base at 4:00 pm, and one day this convoy gets shredded by an IED, was it a lucky strike or did someone know something that was supposed to be kept confidential?

Which brings me to my next point about him being "tortured." I assume this is said because he was placed in solitary confinement. That, if you guys aren't aware, was done for his own protection. The infantry grunts in the brig are not going to appreciate a REMF handing out classified information that could potentially get them blown up.
So because you joined it it can do no wrong? My dad hated it, he was trained to be an animal and kill and that's what he did day-in day-out. Don't get me wrong, he is proud to have worn the beret but not what it made him into.

Bradsea Manning did what he thought was right in the greater scheme of things and although you may think it's wrong by the standards of the big boys club and they are screaming because he took the toys from their sandpit there are bigger consideration here like the moral and ethical implication not to the US but to the betterment of mankind as a whole.

Not only that but the army has brought this on itself by creating the furore around him/her. If the US wasn't so blasé about it's conduct around the world then there would never be any problem. What Manning brought to the fore was the not only US' total disrespect for the international community but also it's conduct it the wars it starts for the wrong reasons and continues to lie to it's own population about.

Blah, blah blah. Mannings revelations may have stirred up the bees' nest of controversy over the U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that doesn't make him a whistle-blower. Nor does it make him some kind of hero; it's clear now that he was not some idealist fighting for human rights or something -- he was just a conflicted man in need of psychological care and a discharge from the military, lashing out agaisnt it in manner most convenient to him.

He did not reveal his government acting against the interests of the citizens, so he's not a whistleblower. Even globally, it's a real stretch to say that anything good came of anything he released (and when you've got 700,000 documents, it's almost impossible to avoid something positive, simply by way of the million-monkies-typing phenomenon).

He wanted to be a woman but suffered intense personal conflict over it, and he personally and voluntarily made a series of unlikely decisions that have effectively made that impossible. It's classic self-destruction by a confused and suffering but ultimately self-interested individual, not some white knight trying to make the world a better place.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for explaining that. The best I could come up with is, "He's a little bitch."
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Thank you for explaining that. The best I could come up with is, "He's a little bitch."

:lol:
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look to see his new gender "assist" with an early release or possibly parole by a future president. "It's not her fault."
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petrjanda
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

Blah, blah blah. Mannings revelations may have stirred up the bees' nest of controversy over the U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that doesn't make him a whistle-blower.


And here I thought that it's in an american's best interest to know who is being killed by america's bombs, or in general, what is the government's foreign policy up to.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Blah, blah blah. Mannings revelations may have stirred up the bees' nest of controversy over the U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that doesn't make him a whistle-blower.


And here I thought that it's in an american's best interest to know who is being killed by america's bombs, or in general, what is the government's foreign policy up to.

First of all, there are many times when the benefits to be gained by having citizens at large know something is far outweighed by the benefits gained by keeping that information from other people who would use that information to act against the interests of those citizens or who might be motivated by that information to act against the interests of those citizens. An unfortunate reality is that if you release information to citizens at large, you have effectively released it to the world.

Ergo, while it may be a distasteful reality to some, it is often in the best interests of citizens (collectively) for their government to keep certain secrets from them. While it is theoretically possible to distinguish those citizens who can be trusted with certain secrets (thereby allowing them to benefit from this information) from those who cannot, it is a practical impossibility to do this exhaustively.

What is possible, and necessary, is that enough citizens ARE trusted with these secrets (all the secrets) to serve as a check on the secret-keeping, such that it's in fact being done to maximize the interests of the citizenry (and not, for example, to abuse their trust, take advantage of them, and to act only the interest of a minority or individual). Somebody exposing that kind of abuse would be a whistle-blower. Somebody simply exposing the fact that secrets are kept, even secrets that might piss somebody somewhere off, is NOT a whistle-blower.

To the other specific of your question regarding, "where bombs are being dropped", there are times when operational details cannot be revealed to the general public, this being in fact in their own best interests (unless they somehow benefit from their own armed forces being defeated or dying or something). It is strategically in the best interests of the citizenry that they are able to be confident their military is being used in a way consistent with what the society has generally agreed it should be doing, both strategically/operationally and ethically/morally. Like anything else, that information should not be kept secret unless necessary (a good example being Obama's secret war in Yemen that Patraeus managed to reveal to us by openly requesting Congressional authorization for use of certain weapons there).

In cases where the people's agreed strategic intent and moral principles are being violated and this is being kept secret, then someone revealing this to them would be a whistle-blower. Manning did no such thing.
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