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Gnome 3.8 without systemd
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gagern
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Gnome 3.8 without systemd Reply with quote

In may day-to-day work I'm using KDE, with KDM as the display manager. But I like to keep a few other window managers and desktop environments around, so I can have a look at what things look like on these. Among the alternatives is Gnome, although I haven't started it in quite a while now. This morning my ~amd64 system world update greeted me with

Code:
# required by gnome-base/gdm-3.8.3.1
# required by gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r2
# required by gnome-extra/gnome-tweak-tool-3.8.1
# required by gnome-base/gnome-extra-apps-3.8.0-r1
# required by gnome-base/gnome-3.8.0[extras]
# required by @selected
# required by @world (argument)
>=sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r2 systemd


I don't feel like installing systemd just to keep this portage dependency happy. I don't even feel like using gdm, and since the above modification aims at gdm, I don't think installing this stuff will have any effect unless I actually run that code as well. What options do I have to install reasonable parts of gnome without incuring that dependency? Preferably I'd be able to have a mostly standard gnome session, although I'll gladly accept some missing features, like e.g. no suspend support as suggested here, and in fact no gdm at all.

Is launching a Gnome 3.8 session from a kdm login any more supported than from gdm without systemd? If so, is there any way to get this explained to portage in terms of package dependencies?

Is there any hope for updates to Gnome 3.6 for a decent time yet, and any hope for newer Gnome without systemd by that time?

If the anser to both of the above should turn out to be “no”, then I guess I'll remove Gnome from my Gentoo, and instead use a Debian in a virtualized environment whenever I want to have a look at something Gnomish. But that would seem a sad day for the diversity and interoperability of desktop environments.

Note: In case you want to keep Gnome at 3.6, you can get a list of all the involved packages from this change to package.mask.
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Moderato
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Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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Location: Karlsruhe, Baden-Württemberg, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, systemd seems to be getting a hard dependency of GNOME as of 3.8. GDM is utilizing it for restarting properly (although a changed /etc/init.d/xdm script would have sufficed as well... cf. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=463784), but there's more.

gnome-shell is also having systemd as a hard dependency (http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/gnome-base/gnome-shell/gnome-shell-3.8.3-r2.ebuild?revision=1.4&view=markup) as well as some other packages I can't remember right now. Probably gnome-settings-daemon or the like.

This pretty much makes GNOME unusable on my system. systemd is hardmasked and it will stay that way, I won't let this cr* ever land on my system, lest start it or make it the default init application.

As far as I know, GNOME can be started from KDM just fine, also GDM is just using systemd for proper restart mechanisms. However, you'll need systemd for power and session management, also cf. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=464944

It may be possible to rip that out, but you'll lose functionality.

I don't think there's hope for having GNOME 3.6 being maintained long-term.

But there's other hope: if I understood correctly, most of the pain is coming from the consolekit => logind (part of systemd) migration GNOME is currently going through. There may be other reasons, but the interesting point is that logind could work with OpenRC as well, it "just" needs a "fake systemd" to be already running and ripped out of systemd into its own ebuild, for being able to co-exist on a system with openrc and udev.

However, if systemd integration deepens in further GNOME versions, I guess we're out of luck.

I, for one, will try to find out if XFCE4 is an alternative, even though I'll pretty much have to lose the majority of GNOMEness. But if that's the price for not having to use systemd, I'd gladly try that...

Best regards,



Mihai
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4077
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup, gnome have gone deep with an init manager... I had a painful day removing gnome and rebuilding -gnome
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