Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Beliefs
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  

What is your core worldview?
Atheistic
54%
 54%  [ 17 ]
Theistic
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
Polytheistic
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Agnostic
29%
 29%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 31

Author Message
GabrielYYZ
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Dominican Republic

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
aidanjt wrote:
Muso wrote:
We've been through this before. To be completely intellectually honest, you must claim agnostic. Whereas you feel that the evidence (or in this case, lack thereof) favors atheism, to claim to be an atheist does require a leap of faith. This is why I describe myself as nontheistic. I'll use the term agnostic, but atheist is simply too bold of a claim, even when the possibility of a deity seems absurd... because that absurdity has a possibility of being accurate.


Atheism by definition makes no assertion of God's non-existence, merely that you do not believe in any Gods. That a number of atheists are gnostic doesn't mean that all atheists are by definition gnostic, that's an association fallacy Christians often make to try to discredit atheism as a whole.


No.

Atheist by definition of the word means no god. Words have meaning.


Words do have meaning, but the way you've defined atheist twice means that you don't care.

Quote:
the·ism (thzm)
n.
Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.


The Prefix "a" means "negation, not", a theist believes in the existence of a god and an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god. Gnosis means knowledge, gnostic means with knowledge and agnostic means without knowledge. Believers are agnostic, they don't know a god exists, they believe a god exists.

I said it before and i'll say it again, that redefinition only serves one purpose: to shift the burden of proof by misrepresenting the position of someone who identifies as an ~theist.
_________________
Vim just saved me 15 minutes on my car insurance... Yeah, it really is that awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theist = Believer in the existence of a deity (deities)

Atheist = Believer in the non-existence of a deity (deities)

Agnostic = Intellectually honest.

Sorry GabrielYYZ, but I actually have a greater command of the language than you do.
_________________
“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ~ T. McKenna
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16090
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Quote:
the·ism (thzm)
n.
Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.


The Prefix "a" means "negation, not", a theist believes in the existence of a god and an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god. Gnosis means knowledge, gnostic means with knowledge and agnostic means without knowledge. Believers are agnostic, they don't know a god exists, they believe a god exists.

I said it before and i'll say it again, that redefinition only serves one purpose: to shift the burden of proof by misrepresenting the position of someone who identifies as an ~theist.
Although your analysis of the word appears to make sense, your conclusion is incorrect.
agnostic wrote:
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GabrielYYZ
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Dominican Republic

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Theist = Believer in the existence of a deity (deities)

Atheist = Believer in the non-existence of a deity (deities)

Agnostic = Intellectually honest.

Sorry GabrielYYZ, but I actually have a greater command of the language than you do.


Yeah, screw etymology.
_________________
Vim just saved me 15 minutes on my car insurance... Yeah, it really is that awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
Theist = Believer in the existence of a deity (deities)

Atheist = Believer in the non-existence of a deity (deities)

Agnostic = Intellectually honest.

Sorry GabrielYYZ, but I actually have a greater command of the language than you do.


Yeah, screw etymology.


Yeah, screw it. WTF do you think that ATHEISM means, according to the actual definition of the words? Not some crap you google, but the actual meaning of the word?

Use your head ffs. Theism is a belief in a god (s). Atheist is the belief in the non-existence of god (s). Agnosticism is the idea that either theism or atheism requires knowledge which is impossible to know. Ergo, the only intellectually honest position to take is agnosticism.

You might *feel* more like an atheist. Or you might *feel* more like a theist. However you are dealing with unknowable unknowns.

So just take a minute and think about what I'm saying.
_________________
“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ~ T. McKenna
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
valerios
n00b
n00b


Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
valerios wrote:
It's blessed bread. The type of the bread that they bless is prosphoro. And then they bless it(with prayers). And it's blessed. And from that point it'll never get moudly.
It doesn't lose its nature as bread. It's just and blessed. You can still eat it whenever you want.
Try it if you don't believe me.

Ok theomachists? You'll never find an explanation in that. You just have the margins to believe after that.

You can eat clay, that doesn't mean it has any nutritional content/is foodstuff. And magical incantations do not alter the nutritional content of the bred, nor the ability of fungal organisms like mold to metabolise nutrients. If you think otherwise, then you're in dire need of an education in microbiology.


Try it man. It's blessed. It'll never happen anything to it(never loses it's components,taste...).

The normal bread gets moudly but that never does.

Stop your nonsense theomachism. If you don't believe me do the experiment.

You can go there if you live in Ireland and try it:
http://ireland.ru/archive/orthodox/Contacts.html
or there:
http://www.helleniccommunity.ie/church/

And your history:
http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/oeireland.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oerpi
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
Theist = Believer in the existence of a deity (deities)

Atheist = Believer in the non-existence of a deity (deities)

Agnostic = Intellectually honest.

Sorry GabrielYYZ, but I actually have a greater command of the language than you do.


Yeah, screw etymology.


Yeah, screw it. WTF do you think that ATHEISM means, according to the actual definition of the words? Not some crap you google, but the actual meaning of the word?

Use your head ffs. Theism is a belief in a god (s). Atheist is the belief in the non-existence of god (s). Agnosticism is the idea that either theism or atheism requires knowledge which is impossible to know. Ergo, the only intellectually honest position to take is agnosticism.

You might *feel* more like an atheist. Or you might *feel* more like a theist. However you are dealing with unknowable unknowns.

So just take a minute and think about what I'm saying.


Actually the correct way would be agnostic or agnostic atheist/theist/whatever. However in practice I'm under the impression that theist/atheist are used for questions of belief and gnostic/agnostic for matters of knowledge. So while noone can know if a god/gods exist if you don't belive in them you're still an atheist. Anyway the discussion is somewhat moot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2375
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
...get the feeling that there is something however

... but you try not to overvalue this something, since you suspect it to be built from foreign contributions! :wink:
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LoTeK
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for a sceptical and honest thinker agnosticism is the only way to go. you can't know if god exists, but likewise you can't know if he doesn't. My understanding of agnosticism is that you just can say: I don't know!

it's hard and painful, but we just can't know... all we can do is build some cool machines, therefore I've switched from science/mathematics(and religion?!) to engineering :)
_________________
"I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2375
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
I think for a sceptical and honest thinker agnosticism is the only way to go.

I would have guessed something else from you LoTek.
Something looking more in accordance with what Laplace answered when Napoleon questioned him about the absence of God in his system :
"Sire, je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse!"

This lead to a particular form of "WorldView" that Bigun did forgot in his list : apathéisme
Don't know if that has ever been translated.

But... I personally... like it.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LoTeK
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would have guessed something else from you LoTek.

do you mean because I've said that I'm a platonist? so I should believe that there exists the idea of justice or god or whatever? If I'm honest I want to believe such things but I can't. In a way I'm a sophist, my own greatest enemy :) :?

there is no way to find a proof for such existences, because as you know a proof is a deduction from some other statements. It's like a trap in a relative (moral and intellectual) world. absolutely intolerable! no way out! (please disprove me :) )

Quote:
"Sire, je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse!"

my french is pretty poor, so does it mean: "I don't feel the need for the hypothesis of a god" ? I understand it (kind of), but if we understand the notion "god" in a way like a platonic idea or like "the final axiom" or so, there is definitely a need for such a hypothesis. You have to ways to go: infinite chain or the final axiom.

of course you can construct a system without it, but then the system hasn't a very wide range, does it?

edit:
can you try to translate apathéisme?
_________________
"I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
valerios
n00b
n00b


Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
I would have guessed something else from you LoTek.

do you mean because I've said that I'm a platonist? so I should believe that there exists the idea of justice or god or whatever? If I'm honest I want to believe such things but I can't. In a way I'm a sophist, my own greatest enemy :) :?

there is no way to find a proof for such existences, because as you know a proof is a deduction from some other statements. It's like a trap in a relative (moral and intellectual) world. absolutely intolerable! no way out! (please disprove me :) )

Quote:
"Sire, je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse!"

my french is pretty poor, so does it mean: "I don't feel the need for the hypothesis of a god" ? I understand it (kind of), but if we understand the notion "god" in a way like a platonic idea or like "the final axiom" or so, there is definitely a need for such a hypothesis. You have to ways to go: infinite chain or the final axiom.

of course you can construct a system without it, but then the system hasn't a very wide range, does it?

edit:
can you try to translate apathéisme?


"can you try to translate apathéisme?"
Religious apathy: You haven't a view on religion. You don't really believe anything, but simultaneously, you don't disbelieve anything.
Apathy: No feelings like excitement, concerning, motivation, passion ect...

" I'm a platonist"
When someone asked St.Gregory of Nazianzus(the Theologian) if he agrees with Plato who said that it's difficult to understand God and impossible to express it, he replied him:
We want to live our God. It's not an issue of philosophical quest. So our theology speaks mainly about how obtain that experience of God, not about what God is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LoTeK
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"can you try to translate apathéisme?"
Religious apathy: You haven't a view on religion. You don't really believe anything, but simultaneously, you don't disbelieve anything.
Apathy: No feelings like excitement, concerning, motivation, passion ect...


you can see religion as a formalization of some "world views". So the only people that don't have a view on such systems are probably buddhists, and I like their way, but anyway it's kind of unsatisfying if you "start thinking".

maybe wittgensteins view that questions about god etc are "senseless" or even a disease has some similarities to the buddhistic view, but this can't be the answer too...

Quote:
" I'm a platonist"
When someone asked St.Gregory of Nazianzus(the Theologian) if he agrees with Plato who said that it's difficult to understand God and impossible to express it, he replied him:
We want to live our God. It's not an issue of philosophical quest. So our theology speaks mainly about how obtain that experience of God, not about what God is.


This view would be the counterpart to the "intellectual religion side". attractive, but again unsatisfying because than god could be just some kind of LSD-trip.. (I know, this would be some kind of intellectual analysis and this is exactly what those people try to avoid (in a positive sense))
_________________
"I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2375
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
can you try to translate apathéisme?

Well, this is going a *big* little bit farther than what valerios said.

Many fellow contributors here around often joke me for not being understandable.
They are correct.
What surprises me is that the same apparently understand and answer to questions such as "Do you believe in God", "What do you believe in" aso.

apatheists just think these questions are... : meaningless !
These don't answer yes! no! I just cannot tell!, or even I don't know!

They just say : I don't understand what you mean !

This is my personal opinion anyway.
@Bigun : If you add this new category, I'll be able to cast my vote.
_________________


Last edited by aCOSwt on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
valerios
n00b
n00b


Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
LoTeK wrote:
can you try to translate apathéisme?

Well, this is going a *big* little bit farther than what valerios said.

Many fellow contributors here around often joke me for not being understandable.
They are correct.
What surprises me is that the same apparently understand questions such as "Do you believe in God", "What do you believe in" aso.

apatheists just think these questions are... : meaningless !
These don't answer yes! no! I just cannot tell!, or even I don't know!

They just say : I don't understand what you mean !

This is my personal opinion anyway.
@Bigun : If you add this new category, I'll be able to cast my vote.


Exactly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LoTeK
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
LoTeK wrote:
can you try to translate apathéisme?

Well, this is going a *big* little bit farther than what valerios said.

Many fellow contributors here around often joke me for not being understandable.
They are correct.
What surprises me is that the same apparently understand questions such as "Do you believe in God", "What do you believe in" aso.

apatheists just think these questions are... : meaningless !
These don't answer yes! no! I just cannot tell!, or even I don't know!

They just say : I don't understand what you mean !

This is my personal opinion anyway.
@Bigun : If you add this new category, I'll be able to cast my vote.


ok, I bet you like the Vienna circle :P
_________________
"I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aidanjt
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Rep. of Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
aidanjt wrote:
Muso wrote:
We've been through this before. To be completely intellectually honest, you must claim agnostic. Whereas you feel that the evidence (or in this case, lack thereof) favors atheism, to claim to be an atheist does require a leap of faith. This is why I describe myself as nontheistic. I'll use the term agnostic, but atheist is simply too bold of a claim, even when the possibility of a deity seems absurd... because that absurdity has a possibility of being accurate.


Atheism by definition makes no assertion of God's non-existence, merely that you do not believe in any Gods. That a number of atheists are gnostic doesn't mean that all atheists are by definition gnostic, that's an association fallacy Christians often make to try to discredit atheism as a whole.


No.

Atheist by definition of the word means no god. Words have meaning.

That's right, words do have meaning, only not the meaning you apparantly immagine:
Quote:
atheist: noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods:
he is a committed atheist


Disbelief isn't an assertion of knowledge of God, merely that you're unconvinced of the claim that God exists. 100% of agnostic atheists are still atheists. But not 100% of agnostics are atheistic, you can be agnostic about a great many things, including being an agnostic Christian. So calling yourself agnostic is imprecise because you're not citing what it is you think you don't/can't have knowledge about.

I have no idea who started this 'agnosticism is the only one true way' nonsense, but they're a blithering idiot.
_________________
juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aidanjt
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1101
Location: Rep. of Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
aidanjt wrote:
You can eat clay, that doesn't mean it has any nutritional content/is foodstuff. And magical incantations do not alter the nutritional content of the bred, nor the ability of fungal organisms like mold to metabolise nutrients. If you think otherwise, then you're in dire need of an education in microbiology.


Try it man. It's blessed. It'll never happen anything to it(never loses it's components,taste...).

The normal bread gets moudly but that never does.

Stop your nonsense theomachism. If you don't believe me do the experiment.

You can go there if you live in Ireland and try it:
http://ireland.ru/archive/orthodox/Contacts.html
or there:
http://www.helleniccommunity.ie/church/

And your history:
http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/oeireland.htm

Did you bother to read and think about what I said at all? Waving your hands around and uttering mythical incantations doesn't alter the physical/chemical/biological properties of anything in front of you, it's just motion and speaking. For bread to be bread it must be baked with certain ingredients, and hold nutritional value, these ingredients and nutrients fuel the growth of fungus. Some breads resist fungal growth better than others, but eventually they're all overrun with the moulds. Even if this 'blessed 'bread'' didn't spoil, that doesn't mean that a) it is actually bread, and b) that supernatural woo is involved.

I'll guarantee you that if a biologist baked a batch of loaves of bread and had half of them 'blessed', they'd all spoil at more or less an identical rate. Not that you'll find a priest willing to 'bless' the bread to begin with, because they know their bullshit *always* fails to pass muster when properly and unsympathetically scrutinised.
_________________
juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
valerios
n00b
n00b


Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
valerios wrote:
aidanjt wrote:
You can eat clay, that doesn't mean it has any nutritional content/is foodstuff. And magical incantations do not alter the nutritional content of the bred, nor the ability of fungal organisms like mold to metabolise nutrients. If you think otherwise, then you're in dire need of an education in microbiology.


Try it man. It's blessed. It'll never happen anything to it(never loses it's components,taste...).

The normal bread gets moudly but that never does.

Stop your nonsense theomachism. If you don't believe me do the experiment.

You can go there if you live in Ireland and try it:
http://ireland.ru/archive/orthodox/Contacts.html
or there:
http://www.helleniccommunity.ie/church/

And your history:
http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/oeireland.htm

Did you bother to read and think about what I said at all? Waving your hands around and uttering mythical incantations doesn't alter the physical/chemical/biological properties of anything in front of you, it's just motion and speaking. For bread to be bread it must be baked with certain ingredients, and hold nutritional value, these ingredients and nutrients fuel the growth of fungus. Some breads resist fungal growth better than others, but eventually they're all overrun with the moulds. Even if this 'blessed 'bread'' didn't spoil, that doesn't mean that a) it is actually bread, and b) that supernatural woo is involved.

I'll guarantee you that if a biologist baked a batch of loaves of bread and had half of them 'blessed', they'd all spoil at more or less an identical rate. Not that you'll find a priest willing to 'bless' the bread to begin with, because they know their bullshit *always* fails to pass muster when properly and unsympathetically scrutinised.


Go & call and a biologist with you, see that & then try it if you don't believe me. I've showed you the way.

Talking more isn't needed. Go and see that to see if it's true or not. Do it as an offer to science.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Theist = Believer in the existence of a deity (deities)

Atheist = Believer in the non-existence of a deity (deities)

Agnostic = Intellectually honest.

Sorry GabrielYYZ, but I actually have a greater command of the language than you do.


A - theist: shouldn't this just mean "not a theist"?

As I said, to assert that "it is impossible for a god to exist" is so strong a claim. I don't know a soul who holds that belief.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GabrielYYZ
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Dominican Republic

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
Theist = Believer in the existence of a deity (deities)

Atheist = Believer in the non-existence of a deity (deities)

Agnostic = Intellectually honest.

Sorry GabrielYYZ, but I actually have a greater command of the language than you do.


Yeah, screw etymology.


Yeah, screw it. WTF do you think that ATHEISM means, according to the actual definition of the words? Not some crap you google, but the actual meaning of the word?

Use your head ffs. Theism is a belief in a god (s). Atheist is the belief in the non-existence of god (s). Agnosticism is the idea that either theism or atheism requires knowledge which is impossible to know. Ergo, the only intellectually honest position to take is agnosticism.

You might *feel* more like an atheist. Or you might *feel* more like a theist. However you are dealing with unknowable unknowns.

So just take a minute and think about what I'm saying.


Use you amazing command of the English language to write the terms properly and, maybe, you'll understand how theism and atheism (not atheist) are different philosophical positions regarding the same premise and not different beliefs. With that being said, i'm perfectly happy to let people cock up the term atheist, i don't even like the word. What is not ok is when people misrepresent the position of someone who doesn't believe god exists with someone who believes god doesn't exist.

A couple years ago, i would've agreed with you that, since it's (in a sense) impossible to know whether a god does or doesn't exist, it's easier to say you can't possibly know and be done with it. However, that excuses the people claiming that they believe in it and their faith is good reason to accept it and every other nasty thing they may want to force on everyone else.
_________________
Vim just saved me 15 minutes on my car insurance... Yeah, it really is that awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2375
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
As I said, to assert that "it is impossible for a god to exist" is so strong a claim. I don't know a soul who holds that belief.

So if this is "As you said" !
Then you just said something absolutely absurd !

I am a soul who holds the belief that "It is impossible for a god to exist"

I just say this in order for you not to be able to repeat this absurdity in other circumstances of the future. I think it might be helpful. Because repeating absurdities more than once might display : extreme stupidity!

I even hold the demonstrable certitude that "It is impossible for a god to exist"
Demonstrable thanks to the sole virtue of universally accepted definitions.

And, of course, I am far from being the only one.
(Note that this is a certitude for authentic knowledgeable deists too!)

I already demonstrated it in OTW, (Copying Kant of course because I don't pretend being original)
_________________


Last edited by aCOSwt on Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:

Yeah, screw it. WTF do you think that ATHEISM means, according to the actual definition of the words? Not some crap you google, but the actual meaning of the word?


a = negate. Theist = believer of god. a theist = not that (i.e. someone who does not believe in god).

Quote:

Use your head ffs. Theism is a belief in a god (s). Atheist is the belief in the non-existence of god (s). Agnosticism is the idea that either theism or atheism requires knowledge which is impossible to know. Ergo, the only intellectually honest position to take is agnosticism.


ergo, really? That's a really strong position that it's impossible to know. but I agree, that is the definition of agnosticism.

Quote:

Use you amazing command of the English language to write the terms properly and, maybe, you'll understand how theism and atheism (not atheist) are different philosophical positions regarding the same premise and not different beliefs. With that being said, i'm perfectly happy to let people cock up the term atheist, i don't even like the word. What is not ok is when people misrepresent the position of someone who doesn't believe god exists with someone who believes god doesn't exist.
yeah, that's what i got in my head.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
juniper wrote:
As I said, to assert that "it is impossible for a god to exist" is so strong a claim. I don't know a soul who holds that belief.

So if this is "As you said" !
Then you just said something absolutely stupid !

I am a soul who holds the belief that "It is impossible for a god to exist"

I just say this in order for you not to be able to repeat this stupidity in other circumstances of the future. I think it might be helpful.

I even hold the demonstrable certitude that "It is impossible for a god to exist"
Demonstrable thanks to the sole virtue of universally accepted definitions.

And, of course, I am far from being the only one.
(Note that this is a certitude for authentic knowledgeable deists too!)

I already demonstrated it in OTW, (Copying Kant of course because I don't pretend being original)


ok. you hold a very strong position then.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2375
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
aCOSwt wrote:
juniper wrote:
As I said, to assert that "it is impossible for a god to exist" is so strong a claim. I don't know a soul who holds that belief.

So if this is "As you said" !
Then you just said something absolutely stupid !

I am a soul who holds the belief that "It is impossible for a god to exist"

I just say this in order for you not to be able to repeat this stupidity in other circumstances of the future. I think it might be helpful.

I even hold the demonstrable certitude that "It is impossible for a god to exist"
Demonstrable thanks to the sole virtue of universally accepted definitions.

And, of course, I am far from being the only one.
(Note that this is a certitude for authentic knowledgeable deists too!)

I already demonstrated it in OTW, (Copying Kant of course because I don't pretend being original)


ok. you hold a very strong position then.

If you call evidence a very strong position then, you are correct.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum