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What is your core worldview?
Atheistic
54%
 54%  [ 17 ]
Theistic
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
Polytheistic
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Agnostic
29%
 29%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 31

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swathe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I consider myself an atheist pretty much in line with how it's described in this video. I don't believe in the existence of any gods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYB47AC0Yng
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The intellectually honest term is agnostic, and every smart atheist knows this.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The intellectually honest term is agnostic, and every smart atheist knows this.


The christian apologist William Lane Craig shares that same position:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/definition-of-atheism

It always seems to me like an attempt to misrepresent and/or trivialize the position of the atheist and to shift the burden of proof.

Personally, i think Sam Harris put it best in Letter To A Christian Nation:

Quote:
In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
Muso wrote:
The intellectually honest term is agnostic, and every smart atheist knows this.


The christian apologist William Lane Craig shares that same position:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/definition-of-atheism


Impressive that you know about him, just wanted to drop that compliment.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
think he meant that figuratively. although it's not unheard of in Christian contexts either....


Or Atheistic, Judaic.... any group of people is capable of an atrocity.
touché :)

(but I did mean the second part literally. i mean, when's the last time a couple atheists literally BURNED someone for not being a member of their group? ;))
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
Bigun wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
think he meant that figuratively. although it's not unheard of in Christian contexts either....


Or Atheistic, Judaic.... any group of people is capable of an atrocity.
touché :)

(but I did mean the second part literally. i mean, when's the last time a couple atheists literally BURNED someone for not being a member of their group? ;))
Crusades, Spanish/Papal inquisition, slavery, consent of the holocaust = Religion
Nazi genocide, Soviet atrocities, Cambodian genocide = Atheism
Rwandan, Bosnian genocides = Ethnic (you could probably add Soviet and Cambodian in this as well)

So if you are religious, atheist or have ethnicity you have blood on your hands.

Although atheist and ethic atrocities aren't done in the name and for the benefit for a deity that is supposed to be kind and forgiving
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
Bigun wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
think he meant that figuratively. although it's not unheard of in Christian contexts either....


Or Atheistic, Judaic.... any group of people is capable of an atrocity.
touché :)

(but I did mean the second part literally. i mean, when's the last time a couple atheists literally BURNED someone for not being a member of their group? ;))
Crusades, Spanish/Papal inquisition, slavery, consent of the holocaust = Religion
Nazi genocide, Soviet atrocities, Cambodian genocide = Atheism
Rwandan, Bosnian genocides = Ethnic (you could probably add Soviet and Cambodian in this as well)

So if you are religious, atheist or have ethnicity you have blood on your hands.

Although atheist and ethic atrocities aren't done in the name and for the benefit for a deity that is supposed to be kind and forgiving

I dunno, your atheist examples had people in positions of power where they were practically worshipped as Gods. I mean, look at Hitler. People had pictures of the guy at home, used his name as a form of greeting ("Heil Hitler") and you got a copy of his propaganda book if you married. He was grossly oversold by his marketing crew. Those are the traits of a deity - personified or not.

The soviets were doing something very similar, although I'm not sure with the Cambodians.

(+ IIRC those dudes didn't literally burn people at the stake.)

I wasn't meaning that atheists were incapable of atrocities though. I'm rather pessimistic about the human race as a whole and consider everyone to be perfectly capable of turning into a Big Bad Torturing Monster until proven otherwise - atheist or monotheist or polytheist or what have you.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
I wasn't meaning that atheists were incapable of atrocities though. I'm rather pessimistic about the human race as a whole and consider everyone to be perfectly capable of turning into a Big Bad Torturing Monster until proven otherwise - atheist or monotheist or polytheist or what have you.
yeah that was my point as well
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So if you are religious, atheist or have ethnicity you have blood on your hands.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what half of these words mean and it would be a waste of time to google them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atheism isn't my worldview. It's just my take on whether god has been proven
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
I wasn't meaning that atheists were incapable of atrocities though. I'm rather pessimistic about the human race as a whole and consider everyone to be perfectly capable of turning into a Big Bad Torturing Monster until proven otherwise - atheist or monotheist or polytheist or what have you.
yeah that was my point as well
Quote:
So if you are religious, atheist or have ethnicity you have blood on your hands.
aye
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The intellectually honest term is agnostic, and every smart atheist knows this.


As above. I don't think there are a lot of atheists who claim there definitely is no god, so if that's your definition I am not an atheist.

But, I don't believe there is a god, and I call myself and atheist. I may simply be miss using the word. But, as above, there are a lot of things I don't believe in (leprauchauns, fairies, big foot etc etc) and I believe I would be called an "athiest" with respect to those things.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
The branch of science that St.Luke does not have anything to do with his religion try picking a better example.


It has because St.Luke of Simferopol and Crimea, before every surgery he made the sign of the cross in the place that he'd do the surgery and never failed.

See his life & how the "scientists" behaved him: youtube.com/watch?v=6df3p_3q_LY
They were not even letting him to move because he was wearing his vestment.

ComputerNerd wrote:
Here is what I was talking about.
valerios wrote:
"I'll answer with your logic sir. If your beliefs are true then i don't lose anything, rather it's good for my health, with my specific diet.
But have you ever thought if those that i believe are straight, how you're harmed?"
-Eugenios Voulgaris reply to Didero and Voltaire because they were kidding him for fasting
It is said that the diners applauded the response of Eugene Voulgaris and Voltaire did not know where to go to hide...


Eugene was Orthodox and Voltaire atheist. He was fasting on the dinner and Voltaire with his cooperator were making fun of him because they were hedonists. So, If i'm that who i'm now i lose nothing. But you lose much.

You tell me about Orthodoxy and that it's not the truth. Well, have you tried the Holy Water from Theophany? you can get infections if you go in a Catholic church or elsewhere except Orthodox so don't try it if you get it from heretic churches(doesn't work on Catholics or others because they haven't apostolic succession etc...).

I have Holy Water more than 1 year and it hasn't happened anything.

If you fulfill a bottle with water and keep it 1 year it will be moldy.

But if take Holy Water from Theophany day & keep it 1 year it will be in the same situation it was when you took it.

How can you or scientists explain that?

See also: The Life-Giving Spring : http://orthodoxwiki.org/Life-Giving_Spring
This Temple was known in history as the sanctification of "Baloukli." "Balouk 'in Turkish means fish and tradition tells us that next to the holy water on 23 May 1453 a monk fried fish when someone brought the news that took the City by the Turks. The monk replied that only if the fish he was frying fled from the pan and fell into the holy water would have thought that was something. And the fish came alive and fell into the source of holy water. Until today in the Life-Giving Spring there are seven fish and they look like were half fried from one side.

You can also try the experiment with Antidoron(blessed bread). Keep it for a while(1 year) and it will dry only(normal...) but it won't get moudly. And get and a normal bread 1 year and see what will happen.
You'll see that. And after that it's matter of faith(again). Free yourselves from the shackles of the evil.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
[
But if take Holy Water from Theophany day & keep it 1 year it will be in the same situation it was when you took it.

How can you or scientists explain that?.


Can it do the same with bread ? I'm having a devil of a time keeping mine from going manky,
tried the fridge, air tight containers and all sorts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
valerios wrote:
[
But if take Holy Water from Theophany day & keep it 1 year it will be in the same situation it was when you took it.

How can you or scientists explain that?.


Can it do the same with bread ? I'm having a devil of a time keeping mine from going manky,
tried the fridge, air tight containers and all sorts.


Take Antidoron(blessed bread). It'll never get moudly.


Last edited by valerios on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
Take Antidoron(blessed bread). It'll never get moudly.


Never ?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
valerios wrote:
Take Antidoron(blessed bread). It'll never get moudly.


Never ?


Yep, never. Try it.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Antidoron
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Impressive that you know about him, just wanted to drop that compliment.


I've watched too many debates on Youtube with him, Frank Turek, rabbi David Wolpe and Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris on the other side, so, yeah, i'm familiar with their arguments. i don't know if that's impressive but i'll accept the compliment anyways. :P

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
The intellectually honest term is agnostic, and every smart atheist knows this.


As above. I don't think there are a lot of atheists who claim there definitely is no god, so if that's your definition I am not an atheist.

But, I don't believe there is a god, and I call myself and atheist. I may simply be miss using the word. But, as above, there are a lot of things I don't believe in (leprauchauns, fairies, big foot etc etc) and I believe I would be called an "athiest" with respect to those things.


You'd most likely be called "a-leprechaunist", "a-fairist" or "a-bigfootist". the "a" prefix is just the logical negation of the claim of theism, which is the belief that god exists.

PS: Theists don't know god exists, they just believe it does according to their faith, so by definition everyone is agnostic regarding the existence of god. A lot of theists will even admit to the impossibility of knowing god exists.
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Last edited by GabrielYYZ on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
valerios wrote:
Take Antidoron(blessed bread). It'll never get moudly.


Never ?


Yep, never. Try it.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Antidoron

So in other words, it isn't bread.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
valerios wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
valerios wrote:
Take Antidoron(blessed bread). It'll never get moudly.


Never ?


Yep, never. Try it.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Antidoron

So in other words, it isn't bread.


It's blessed bread. The type of the bread that they bless is prosphoro. And then they bless it(with prayers). And it's blessed. And from that point it'll never get moudly.
It doesn't lose its nature as bread. It's just and blessed. You can still eat it whenever you want.
Try it if you don't believe me.

Ok theomachists? You'll never find an explanation in that. You just have the margins to believe after that.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
It's blessed bread. The type of the bread that they bless is prosphoro. And then they bless it(with prayers). And it's blessed. And from that point it'll never get moudly.
It doesn't lose its nature as bread. It's just and blessed. You can still eat it whenever you want.
Try it if you don't believe me.

Ok theomachists? You'll never find an explanation in that. You just have the margins to believe after that.

You can eat clay, that doesn't mean it has any nutritional content/is foodstuff. And magical incantations do not alter the nutritional content of the bred, nor the ability of fungal organisms like mold to metabolise nutrients. If you think otherwise, then you're in dire need of an education in microbiology.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
The intellectually honest term is agnostic, and every smart atheist knows this.


As above. I don't think there are a lot of atheists who claim there definitely is no god, so if that's your definition I am not an atheist.

But, I don't believe there is a god, and I call myself and atheist. I may simply be miss using the word. But, as above, there are a lot of things I don't believe in (leprauchauns, fairies, big foot etc etc) and I believe I would be called an "athiest" with respect to those things.


We've been through this before. To be completely intellectually honest, you must claim agnostic. Whereas you feel that the evidence (or in this case, lack thereof) favors atheism, to claim to be an atheist does require a leap of faith. This is why I describe myself as nontheistic. I'll use the term agnostic, but atheist is simply too bold of a claim, even when the possibility of a deity seems absurd... because that absurdity has a possibility of being accurate.

I prefer the Buddhist approach. The existence or nonexistence of a deity is something one cannot prove, so just behave decently regardless.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
We've been through this before. To be completely intellectually honest, you must claim agnostic. Whereas you feel that the evidence (or in this case, lack thereof) favors atheism, to claim to be an atheist does require a leap of faith. This is why I describe myself as nontheistic. I'll use the term agnostic, but atheist is simply too bold of a claim, even when the possibility of a deity seems absurd... because that absurdity has a possibility of being accurate.


Atheism by definition makes no assertion of God's non-existence, merely that you do not believe in any Gods. That a number of atheists are gnostic doesn't mean that all atheists are by definition gnostic, that's an association fallacy Christians often make to try to discredit atheism as a whole.
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juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Doesn't mean they would. Unbelievers would also have that same power over us if they were majority, hardly a decent argument.
Bigun wrote:
Or Atheistic, Judaic.... any group of people is capable of an atrocity.
That is consistent with:
mcgruff wrote:
The worst possible types of religion are the fascistic ones which claim to be the only true faith.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
Muso wrote:
We've been through this before. To be completely intellectually honest, you must claim agnostic. Whereas you feel that the evidence (or in this case, lack thereof) favors atheism, to claim to be an atheist does require a leap of faith. This is why I describe myself as nontheistic. I'll use the term agnostic, but atheist is simply too bold of a claim, even when the possibility of a deity seems absurd... because that absurdity has a possibility of being accurate.


Atheism by definition makes no assertion of God's non-existence, merely that you do not believe in any Gods. That a number of atheists are gnostic doesn't mean that all atheists are by definition gnostic, that's an association fallacy Christians often make to try to discredit atheism as a whole.


No.

Atheist by definition of the word means no god. Words have meaning.
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