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John-Boy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Ministers angry at European whole-life tariffs ruling Reply with quote

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In a case brought by murderer Jeremy Bamber and two other killers, judges said such sentences had to be reviewed at some point.

To never have any possibility of parole was inhuman or degrading, they said.



JB is violently sick.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

between this and the whole qatada thing (plus countless other minor disputes...) the EU court of human rights has gone beyond upholding just human rights. time to leave it
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO ok. So they have a right to have their sentence reviewed once in a while.

The ruling does not say when. It does not say that they have to be released. Just that someone has a look at them.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Ministers angry at European whole-life tariffs ruling Reply with quote

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In a case brought by murderer Jeremy Bamber and two other killers, judges said such sentences had to be reviewed at some point.

To never have any possibility of parole was inhuman or degrading, they said.
Wow. So, proportionally, anything on the low end should just be eliminated.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Ministers angry at European whole-life tariffs ruling Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
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To never have any possibility of parole was inhuman or degrading, they said.

...
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Mr Grayling said the human rights convention's authors would be "turning in their graves".

This is wrong. They would surely not.
Simply because they had the correct understanding of "parole".
Accepting "parole" in its original meaning, it is an absolute evidence that To never have any possibility of parole is inhuman or degrading

It's not their fault if, once again, the English fiddled an awkward definition.

BTW : I learnt something today... I did not know the usage of parole in English.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
IMHO ok. So they have a right to have their sentence reviewed once in a while.
They get an automatic one every 5 years. Plus, various people from the Home Secretaries to psychiatrists can order one
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life never means life any way. They always get let out on compassionate grounds a few days before they die.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Ministers angry at European whole-life tariffs ruling Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
Link
Quote:
To never have any possibility of parole was inhuman or degrading, they said.

...
Quote:
Mr Grayling said the human rights convention's authors would be "turning in their graves".

This is wrong. They would surely not.
Simply because they had the correct understanding of "parole".
Accepting "parole" in its original meaning, it is an absolute evidence that To never have any possibility of parole is inhuman or degrading

It's not their fault if, once again, the English fiddled an awkward definition.

BTW : I learnt something today... I did not know the usage of parole in English.
its not... we have two types of "life" imprisonment in the UK
1) life. minimum of 25years. people given life are eligible for parole (ie early supervised release...).
2) life without parole, ie locked up never to be freed again. These are people that have killed alot and have shown no remorse. WTF shouldn't they be locked up
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Ministers angry at European whole-life tariffs ruling Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
2) life without parole, ie locked up never to be freed again. These are people that have killed alot and have shown no remorse. WTF shouldn't they be locked up
I guess they might be in there because the judges screwed up and the guy ain't in there because he actually deserves it, but rather because he was framed?

and frankly, the far better thing to do would be to just kill 'em if they don't have any chance for parole as it is. you know, economically speaking. save the tax payers' money and all.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Ministers angry at European whole-life tariffs ruling Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
Naib wrote:
2) life without parole, ie locked up never to be freed again. These are people that have killed alot and have shown no remorse. WTF shouldn't they be locked up
I guess they might be in there because the judges screwed up and the guy ain't in there because he actually deserves it, but rather because he was framed?

and frankly, the far better thing to do would be to just kill 'em if they don't have any chance for parole as it is. you know, economically speaking. save the tax payers' money and all.

And that's why we have appeals. He says he didn't do it, funny that so do almost all criminals. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers and the judge considering the severity of the crime game him life without parole.

Now he may be innocent, it happens AND If we executed lifers like that then there is no way for them to be released.
Whole life sentences are only handed out for the extreme murder cases.





--correction--
In England and Wales, life imprisonment is a sentence which lasts until the death of the prisoner, although in most cases the prisoner will be eligible for parole (officially termed "early release") after a fixed period set by the judge. This period is known as the "minimum term" (previously known as the "tariff"). In some exceptionally grave cases however, a judge may order that a life sentence should mean life by making a "whole life order."

Crimes where whole life order are recommended
murder of two or more persons, where each murder involves any of the following :
a substantial degree of premeditation or planning,
the abduction of the victim, or
sexual or sadistic conduct,
child murder if involving the abduction of the child or sexual or sadistic motivation,
murder done for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause,
murder by an offender previously convicted of murder,
other offence if the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is exceptionally high. For example, high treason can warrant such a sentence, if it is grave enough.[12]
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*shrug* I don't see why we can't just hang 'em instead of locking them up for life. Seriously, we're making way too much of a deal about the death penalty. Yeh, dude might be innocent, but fuck 'im. That happens like, what, once in a million? Shit, your chances of getting run over in traffic are MUCH higher than getting sentenced to death without being guilty.

Ain't no point in feeding, dressing and grooming the guy if there's no chance you'll ever let 'im out in the first place. Fuck appeals. Okay, okay, maybe I came on too strong. Here's a compromise: everyone gets TWO appeals and it has to be handled and under wrap in 2 months. There. Dude gets sentenced to death three times in a row: fuck 'im. "Oh but I'm innocent" - "yeah, here's a knife, do what has to be done or we'll do it for ya".

A little bit of practicality, cherie!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey it was the EU that banned the death sentence, we still had it on the books for high treason :)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
hey it was the EU that banned the death sentence, we still had it on the books for high treason :)
i was just gonna say that high treason is about the only offence where it should NEVER be used, lol :D.

but yeah, i think krautland also has it in some of the state books, but judges aren't allowed to sentence people to death any longer.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if someone manages to kill a member of the royal family, shouldn't the chief of security be executed anyway. Look at it as the assassin was an intrusion tester for the security
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Well if someone manages to kill a member of the royal family, shouldn't the chief of security be executed anyway. Look at it as the assassin was an intrusion tester for the security
:lol::lol:

indeed :twisted:

the bloke outghta get a medal instead :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
*shrug* I don't see why we can't just hang 'em instead of locking them up for life. Seriously, we're making way too much of a deal about the death penalty. Yeh, dude might be innocent, but fuck 'im. That happens like, what, once in a million? Shit, your chances of getting run over in traffic are MUCH higher than getting sentenced to death without being guilty.

Ain't no point in feeding, dressing and grooming the guy if there's no chance you'll ever let 'im out in the first place. Fuck appeals. Okay, okay, maybe I came on too strong. Here's a compromise: everyone gets TWO appeals and it has to be handled and under wrap in 2 months. There. Dude gets sentenced to death three times in a row: fuck 'im. "Oh but I'm innocent" - "yeah, here's a knife, do what has to be done or we'll do it for ya".

A little bit of practicality, cherie!
What about giving them the option? Give them the option of staying in jail for life or being executed? As a person who is against the death penalty I'd be in favour of that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
mdeininger wrote:
*shrug* I don't see why we can't just hang 'em instead of locking them up for life. Seriously, we're making way too much of a deal about the death penalty. Yeh, dude might be innocent, but fuck 'im. That happens like, what, once in a million? Shit, your chances of getting run over in traffic are MUCH higher than getting sentenced to death without being guilty.

Ain't no point in feeding, dressing and grooming the guy if there's no chance you'll ever let 'im out in the first place. Fuck appeals. Okay, okay, maybe I came on too strong. Here's a compromise: everyone gets TWO appeals and it has to be handled and under wrap in 2 months. There. Dude gets sentenced to death three times in a row: fuck 'im. "Oh but I'm innocent" - "yeah, here's a knife, do what has to be done or we'll do it for ya".

A little bit of practicality, cherie!
What about giving them the option? Give them the option of staying in jail for life or being executed? As a person who is against the death penalty I'd be in favour of that.
I'd admit, I'd much rather have them toss a coin.

Let's put it this way, if I'd get the option, I'd personally chose to get imprisoned. Not because I'd rather not die, but really just to fuck with the state.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuck it, just implement thunderdome or the wheel of punishment "bust a deal, face the wheel"
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I swear OTW just gets worse and worse. Is there no spiteful, petty thought-process too rabidly right-wing or just too damn ignorant to be championed here?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I swear OTW just gets worse and worse. Is there no spiteful, petty thought-process too rabidly right-wing or just too damn ignorant to be championed here?


amazing, isn't it?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I swear OTW just gets worse and worse. Is there no spiteful, petty thought-process too rabidly right-wing or just too damn ignorant to be championed here?
Have you never been to OTW before?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right-wing? I thought it is too liberal.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I swear OTW just gets worse and worse. Is there no spiteful, petty thought-process too rabidly right-wing or just too damn ignorant to be championed here?


Assume then, that you agree with the concept of somebody who has visited untold horror on somebody else
(potentially an innocent) in their final moments - someday (again potentially) walking free ?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what the human rights act is for isn't it? To let vicious murderers go free.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That does appear to be all the EU human right court is doing...
Someone denies a load of people of their human rights, stupid enough to get caught then cries to the EU that their rights are being subjugated EVEN though it is clearly stated that murderers get life and serious murders get life without parole.

Right now a murder will get life and given a time before he can get parole. If he does it again the keys are thrown away... Unfit for society. NOW the eu have butted in to uk criminal law and said 'you have to offer them the chance of parole again'

Fuck that shit. I know the way I am voting at the upcoming ref
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