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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: For those who like the subtle nuances & tactics in footb Reply with quote

ZonalMarking is a great site that ignores rumours, crap and opinion for a pure analysis of the game.

Anyway, I came acroos this when looking through the european team of the season:
Quote:
After a period where pure passers reigned in the centre of the pitch, the inclusion of both [Javi] Martinez and [Arturo] Vidal in this side demonstrates that there’s been a shift towards more physical, combative players that are also capable of technical brilliance...

Anyway, do you think this is where football is heading? Towards a more physical midfield? It seems like going back to the 80s. I can't see them being far wrong with the way that Real Madrid, Barcelona and Spain were just brushed aside this season.

Have a good look at the site, the extreme detail they go into is great. They do all the big games from the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, MLS, Ligue 1 etc plus continental and international matches. Some highlights you may want to read are:

Bayern Munich 2-1 Borussia Dortmund
Barcelona 0-3 Bayern
Manchester United 1-2 Real Madrid
Dortmund 4-1 Real Madrid
Brazil 3-0 Spain
Spain 0-0 Italy
LA Galaxy 3-1 Houston Dynamo
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree.

Soccer is somewhat a game of possession. You can't score if you don't have the ball, and neither can the other side. The tic-tac passing game as a strategy is one of taking excellent players and having them play a very low-level game with as few turn-over-producing errors as possible, in order to maximize possession. I have always said that half of the long, airball passes (to include those by goalies) are 50-50 balls. Why give the ball away?

However, the passing game only works if the other side can't (or isn't motivated enough to) disrupt it. If a side is similarly skilled but also athletic enough and aggressive enough, it is indeed possible. Furthermore, these same characteristics are also necessary at the top of the field to create scoring opportunities.

Soccer has not always been a pussy sport. These days, when somebody makes a legal charge, using torso-to-torso body contact, they get called for a foul if the other guy takes a dive and starts rolling around like his vagina has been savaged. It shouldn't be that way.

It's a contact sport, and the rules provide for plenty of legitimate contact. Likewise, the failure of a dribbler to avoid the legs of a fair tackle aimed at the ball does not make it a trip, just because the guy takes a dive after he loses the ball and acts like he's been mugged in an Irish alley. Most of this pussification has developed over the last 20 years or so, led by certain European countries which I will not name.

It's time for officials to stop rewarding the dive-takers and theatrical fairies and let the game be played, and that includes contact incidental to legitimate attempting to take the ball.
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tylerwylie
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It's a contact sport, and the rules provide for plenty of legitimate contact. Likewise, the failure of a dribbler to avoid the legs of a fair tackle aimed at the ball does not make it a trip, just because the guy takes a dive after he loses the ball and acts like he's been mugged in an Irish alley. Most of this pussification has developed over the last 20 years or so, led by certain European countries which I will not name.

It's time for officials to stop rewarding the dive-takers and theatrical fairies and let the game be played, and that includes contact incidental to legitimate attempting to take the ball.
I used to play and referee travel team soccer in GA until my senior year of high school, and I agree with this. (Even though I was a goalkeeper) You get taught to tackle through the ball, not tackle the other player to get the ball, if they happen to be in the path then that's their problem. Had to deal with so many parents and coaches who thought that if a kid falls down, the game should be stopped. Maybe for that U-8 stuff but that's not how it rolls in U-15 and U-16 travel team soccer, that stuff was fierce.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you can't take out someone's legs to get to a ball on the other side of them, but if you go after the ball cleanly, and the other guy happens to want to take his next step where you put your foot, that's his problem, even if he managed to get the ball past you. It's a judgement call by the official, but right now they seem to err in the wrong direction a little to often, sometimes based on the theatrics.

You watch old dribbling marvels like Pele at work. Half their magic was hopping over people's legs and avoiding getting knocked off balance.

A quick-passing team avoids most tackles simply by each player being rid of the ball before anybody challenges them. This can be upset, however, with a constant "full-court-press" sort of midfield defense, where he not only has to get rid of the ball more quickly than he'd like (forcing first-time passing rather than two-touch, and thereby creating errors), and by simultaneously cutting off the passing vectors and pressuring the recipients of the passes (thereby also creating errors).

This take enormous stamina, however, and a high level of individual skill (e.g., intercepting passes requires a lot of intuitive sense and agility). Speed, size, and toughness are also helpful in the more physical game.

I don't think people are going to stop trying to play a passing game; I think teams are going to make it harder to do so and not just sit back helplessly and let it happen (which is what's been going on over recent years).

A combination of styles of play is necessary. The best teams can adapt when their favored style is denied.


Last edited by Bones McCracker on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It's time for officials to stop rewarding the dive-takers and theatrical fairies and let the game be played, and that includes contact incidental to legitimate attempting to take the ball.

It is within the rules to reward theatrics with a yellow card. What fotball needs is more of replay aids to make such calls, just give refs a smartphone and they can have replay streamed to them on the field.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
It's time for officials to stop rewarding the dive-takers and theatrical fairies and let the game be played, and that includes contact incidental to legitimate attempting to take the ball.

It is within the rules to reward theatrics with a yellow card. What fotball needs is more of replay aids to make such calls, just give refs a smartphone and they can have replay streamed to them on the field.

I agree. Something like that is needed. The field is just too big, with too many people on it, to get every such call right. Look at the shit that goes on in the goal box during a corner kick, for example. It's like a mosh pit full of people on crystal meth. :lol:
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It's like a mosh pit full of people on crystal meth. :lol:

:lol: haha true.
Maybe refs can wear google glass. :)
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a new system by a German company which will tell the referee whether the ball has gone across the line. The info gets sent to his watch in under a second.

What we need is retroactive yellow and red cards and bans for people who dive and simulate.

And if they fall down and grab their leg then they should be dragged off the pitch for 5 mins. They'd soon get up then!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
There is a new system by a German company which will tell the referee whether the ball has gone across the line. The info gets sent to his watch in under a second.

What we need is retroactive yellow and red cards and bans for people who dive and simulate.

And if they fall down and grab their leg then they should be dragged off the pitch for 5 mins. They'd soon get up then!

They used that end-line technology in some of the Confederations Cup matches. I don't think telling whether the ball has gone over the line is much of a problem, though. Knowing who really touched it last sometimes is.

The real simulation artists grab their face. That way, even if you can't tell if there was contact in the replay on TV they can always say they were just writhing in pain. Plus, you can't see their face to tell if their faking it.

I think this idea of retroactive cards for simulation is a good one. In the past it's been too expensive to implement at the lowest levels of the game, but today I think even secondary schools and town teams could afford some kind of variation on the theme (even it's some guy on a ladder with an iPhone).
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
There is a new system by a German company which will tell the referee whether the ball has gone across the line. The info gets sent to his watch in under a second.

What we need is retroactive yellow and red cards and bans for people who dive and simulate.

And if they fall down and grab their leg then they should be dragged off the pitch for 5 mins. They'd soon get up then!

They used that end-line technology in some of the Confederations Cup matches. I don't think telling whether the ball has gone over the line is much of a problem
orly?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:

I didn't say it never happens; I just mean it's not much of a problem.

When you look at all the many mistakes made by officials, balls being over the line or not is a drop in the bucket.

The cameras caught that one pretty well. Can this maybe be covered by the same replay technology we're talking about? What if you put a replay camera above two opposite corners of the field?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
:lol:

I didn't say it never happens; I just mean it's not much of a problem.

When you look at all the many mistakes made by officials, balls being over the line or not is a drop in the bucket.

The cameras caught that one pretty well. Can this maybe be covered by the same replay technology we're talking about? What if you put a replay camera above two opposite corners of the field?
That was truly horrendous for FIFA. Not only was it in the biggest tournament in the world, miles over the line, missed by three officials, broadcast around the world and repeated on the internet, it was also at a time when England had scored, were in the ascendency, would have meant that the scores were level and between two teams who have a big rivalry.

Everyone thought that Sepp Blatter was a cunt before, afterwards they realised he was an ugly, bloodied, elbow fisted panda's cunt
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:

Still, replay cameras would have caught it. I guess it's unavoidable. The future will have an off-field official who uses various gadgets, and provides the necessary cues to the on-field referee through the heads-up display in his Google Birth Control Monacle.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
:lol:

Still, replay cameras would have caught it. I guess it's unavoidable. The future will have an off-field official who uses various gadgets, and provides the necessary cues to the on-field referee through the heads-up display in his Google Birth Control Monacle.
Football: A Google and Christopher Nolan production
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