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Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdelibs?
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orionbelt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdelibs? Reply with quote

I have set -semantic-desktop in my USE flags in make.conf. Still, the following error is produced when "update world" attempts to update to KDE 4.10.4:4 :

Code:
The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by media-gfx/digikam-3.2.0
# required by @selected
# required by @world (argument)
>=kde-base/kdelibs-4.10.4 semantic-desktop

even though digikam does not require semantic-desktop for itself:

Code:
% emerge -vp digikam
[...]
[ebuild  N     ] kde-base/nepomuk-widgets-4.10.4:4  USE="(-aqua) -debug" 77 kB
[ebuild     U  ] media-gfx/digikam-3.2.0:4 [3.1.0:4] USE="handbook thumbnails -addressbook (-aqua) -debug -doc -gphoto2 -mysql -themedesigner -video (-semantic-desktop%)" LINGUAS="el fr -af -ar -az -be -bg -bn -br -bs -ca -cs -csb -cy -da -de -en_GB -eo -es -et -eu -fa -fi -fo -fy -ga -gl -ha -he -hi -hr -hsb -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -km -ko -ku -lb -lo -lt -lv -mi -mk -mn -ms -mt -nb -nds -ne -nl -nn -nso -oc -pa -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -rw -se -sk -sl -sq -sr -sr@Latn -ss -sv -ta -te -tg -th -tr -tt -uk -uz -uz@cyrillic -ven -vi -wa -xh -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW -zu" 57,080 kB

So it also wants to install nepomuk...

Please tell me that i am doing something wrong, or that this is a bug! I already stopped using amarok and korganizer largely because of semantic desktop...
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

orionbelt wrote:
I have set -semantic-desktop in my USE flags in make.conf. Still, the following error is produced when "update world" attempts to update to KDE 4.10.4:4 :

Code:
The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by media-gfx/digikam-3.2.0
# required by @selected
# required by @world (argument)
>=kde-base/kdelibs-4.10.4 semantic-desktop

even though digikam does not require semantic-desktop for itself:

Code:
% emerge -vp digikam
[...]
[ebuild  N     ] kde-base/nepomuk-widgets-4.10.4:4  USE="(-aqua) -debug" 77 kB
[ebuild     U  ] media-gfx/digikam-3.2.0:4 [3.1.0:4] USE="handbook thumbnails -addressbook (-aqua) -debug -doc -gphoto2 -mysql -themedesigner -video (-semantic-desktop%)" LINGUAS="el fr -af -ar -az -be -bg -bn -br -bs -ca -cs -csb -cy -da -de -en_GB -eo -es -et -eu -fa -fi -fo -fy -ga -gl -ha -he -hi -hr -hsb -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -km -ko -ku -lb -lo -lt -lv -mi -mk -mn -ms -mt -nb -nds -ne -nl -nn -nso -oc -pa -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -rw -se -sk -sl -sq -sr -sr@Latn -ss -sv -ta -te -tg -th -tr -tt -uk -uz -uz@cyrillic -ven -vi -wa -xh -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW -zu" 57,080 kB

So it also wants to install nepomuk...

Please tell me that i am doing something wrong, or that this is a bug! I already stopped using amarok and korganizer largely because of semantic desktop...


You are installing digikam-3.2.0, which is from unstable branch. Since KDE has plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required starting from kde-4.11, I suspect
digikam may start requiring it as well.
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orionbelt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

dmpogo wrote:
You are installing digikam-3.2.0, which is from unstable branch. Since KDE has plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required starting from kde-4.11, I suspect digikam may start requiring it as well.

Thanks, dmpogo. At least on Gentoo, digikam-3.2.0 is in the stable branch.

It was sad to read that KDE plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required, going against all tenets of "Unix tradition"... I hope at least the window manager part of KDE will remain uninfected... It is very unfortunate having to abandon otherwise good software because of this.
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

orionbelt wrote:
dmpogo wrote:
You are installing digikam-3.2.0, which is from unstable branch. Since KDE has plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required starting from kde-4.11, I suspect digikam may start requiring it as well.

Thanks, dmpogo. At least on Gentoo, digikam-3.2.0 is in the stable branch.

It was sad to read that KDE plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required, going against all tenets of "Unix tradition"... I hope at least the window manager part of KDE will remain uninfected... It is very unfortunate having to abandon otherwise good software because of this.


No, digikam-3.2.0 is ~amd64, not stable, and it dropped symantic-desktop USE flag that stable 3.1.0 has, and instead has enforcement

Code:

CDEPEND="
        $(add_kdebase_dep kdelibs 'semantic-desktop(+)')
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

orionbelt wrote:
dmpogo wrote:
You are installing digikam-3.2.0, which is from unstable branch. Since KDE has plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required starting from kde-4.11, I suspect digikam may start requiring it as well.

Thanks, dmpogo. At least on Gentoo, digikam-3.2.0 is in the stable branch.

It was sad to read that KDE plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required, going against all tenets of "Unix tradition"... I hope at least the window manager part of KDE will remain uninfected... It is very unfortunate having to abandon otherwise good software because of this.
There will be no option to disable semantic desktop at compile time, but you can disable it at runtime. See

http://dilfridge.blogspot.de/2013/05/news-from-201305-gentoo-kde-team-meeting.html
http://blogs.gentoo.org/johu/2013/06/13/disabling-semantic-desktop-at-runtime-2
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:


It was sad to read that KDE plans to make sematic-desktop unconditionally required, going against all tenets of "Unix tradition"... I hope at least the window manager part of KDE will remain uninfected... It is very unfortunate having to abandon otherwise good software because of this.
There will be no option to disable semantic desktop at compile time, but you can disable it at runtime. See

http://dilfridge.blogspot.de/2013/05/news-from-201305-gentoo-kde-team-meeting.html
http://blogs.gentoo.org/johu/2013/06/13/disabling-semantic-desktop-at-runtime-2[/quote]

Well, akonadi situation does not leave much enthusiasm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's try the official way. Anybody interested, please, go and vote this bug .
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

dmpogo wrote:
http://blogs.gentoo.org/johu/2013/06/13/disabling-semantic-desktop-at-runtime-2
Doesn't work here for 4.10.4 - the appropriate icon does not exist here in the system settings.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would just like to point out that while I also will miss having a quality KDE, there are alternatives that are very committed to the Unix philosophy, such as i3. It may be time to give those projects more of the Linux market share.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
I would just like to point out that while I also will miss having a quality KDE, there are alternatives that are very committed to the Unix philosophy, such as i3. It may be time to give those projects more of the Linux market share.

that's exactly what I did: switched to awesome wm + compton ;) And I'm really happy! Took me some time to get from kate/kile to vim, but now all is fine.
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orionbelt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
There will be no option to disable semantic desktop at compile time, but you can disable it at runtime. See

http://dilfridge.blogspot.de/2013/05/news-from-201305-gentoo-kde-team-meeting.html
http://blogs.gentoo.org/johu/2013/06/13/disabling-semantic-desktop-at-runtime-2

Judging from the blog article comments, especially about akonadi, it is not entirely clear that semantic desktop can be completely disabled at runtime, at least not without some more work. Perhaps more complete instructions could be placed somewhere?

But this is not just about how to circumvent KDE's choices. It's about their attitude. If disabling semantic desktop at runtime is possible, i don't see why they cannot disable it at compilation time as well with minimum effort. A few years ago, they took the wise decision of breaking up the KDE project into smaller packages so that one could install only what is desired. I think implementing --without-semantic-desktop at compilation time would not be harder to do. So the way i see this, and i'd be glad to be proven otherwise, is that KDE is telling its lusers: $crew you, you gotta install semantic desktop whether you like it or not cuz this is what we agreed to do with those research guys (or whatever their reason is).

Don't get me wrong, i am not against progress, and i think a personal text search system is very useful. But KDE's approach brings up several questions. For one, Nepomuk goes beyond text searching and into things that not everyone finds useful or even desirable. Even if we stick to text searching, what i don't like is that they go about it solo, and that they break with Unix tradition. By "solo" i mean that if i adopt KDE Nepomuk + Strigi and one day i decide to move away from KDE, i'll lose all this functionality. So why not use something like recoll, which has received good reviews, and which i can use no matter what my WM is. (Perhaps Strigi can be used from inside another WM, but it would have to raise half the daemons of hell along the way, which is not my notion of having fun). As to breaking with Unix tradition, i mean mainly the ability to perform searches at the command line in a clean way, something that again recoll apparently supports.

sphakka wrote:
Let's try the official way. Anybody interested, please, go and vote this bug .

I do not think we should expect Gentoo developers to keep hacking this up. Gentoo is no Debian, and i do not think it has the manpower to do this even if they wanted. IMO, bringing this up with KDE is the way to go (just as you suggest in your reply) but i don't know how much hope there is to it... Let's not forget that this would not affect the binary distros, they are "bound" to offer semantic desktop. And i don't know how much power the rest of us got to influence such decisions...

The Doctor wrote:
I would just like to point out that while I also will miss having a quality KDE, there are alternatives that are very committed to the Unix philosophy, such as i3. It may be time to give those projects more of the Linux market share.

Well, for the time being KDE's window manager is unaffected by semantic desktop. I like its configurability and good looks, and i hesitate spending the time to switch unless i have to. The problem is with KDE's applications.

dmpogo wrote:
No, digikam-3.2.0 is ~amd64, not stable, and it dropped symantic-desktop USE flag that stable 3.1.0 has, and instead has enforcement

Running "eix digikam" gives "Available versions: (4) 3.1.0^t [m]3.2.0^t". I am not sure what ^t means, but there is no ~ which i take to mean that it's stable. I am not sure how to interpret [m] since digikam is not in my /etc/portage/package.keywords... and despite [m], the string "3.2.0" appears in green, and "update world" wanted to update it... If someone can interpret the eix output better, i'd be happy to be educated :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

orionbelt wrote:


dmpogo wrote:
No, digikam-3.2.0 is ~amd64, not stable, and it dropped symantic-desktop USE flag that stable 3.1.0 has, and instead has enforcement

Running "eix digikam" gives "Available versions: (4) 3.1.0^t [m]3.2.0^t". I am not sure what ^t means, but there is no ~ which i take to mean that it's stable. I am not sure how to interpret [m] since digikam is not in my /etc/portage/package.keywords... and despite [m], the string "3.2.0" appears in green, and "update world" wanted to update it... If someone can interpret the eix output better, i'd be happy to be educated :)


I don't know eix, but digikam-3.2.0.ebuild says

KEYWORDS="~amd64 ~x86"

BTW, kde-4.10.4 is also ~amd64, stable is 4.10.3
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why digikam requires enabling semantic-desktop for kdeli Reply with quote

dmpogo wrote:
BTW, kde-4.10.4 is also ~amd64, stable is 4.10.3

go and have a resync :P
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But now I do have nepomuk and akonadi services running in the background (KDE 4.10.4) - and no icon in the system settings to configure(==stop) them :-(
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

related bug https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=475464 is fixed :-)
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