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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject: Obama: "Oil spill vanished - now you can like me again& Reply with quote

Abracadabra! The oils spill is gone -- "a direct result of the very robust federal response efforts". :lol:

Quote:
The Obama administration’s latest report on the Gulf of Mexico disaster set off a war of words Wednesday among scientists, Gulf Coast residents and political pundits about what to make of the Deepwater Horizon spill and its aftermath.

The report, the subject of an extended White House briefing, claimed that most of the estimated 4.9 million barrels of oil that have leaked into the gulf could be accounted for, that much of it was effectively gone already, and that most of the remaining oil was in a highly diluted form. The implication of the report was that future damage from the oil might be less than had been feared.

Quote:
Even among scientists specializing in the issues raised by the new report, splits emerged Wednesday about how much credence to give it.

Some researchers attacked the findings and methodology, calling the report premature at best and sloppy at worst. They noted that considerable research was still under way to shed light on some of the main scientific issues raised in the report.

“A lot of this is based on modeling and extrapolation and very generous assumptions,” said Samantha Joye, a marine scientist at the University of Georgia who has led some of the most important research on the Deepwater Horizon spill. “If an academic scientist put something like this out there, it would get torpedoed into a billion pieces.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/us/05oil.html

Others called the Government's "science" smoke and mirrors.
Quote:
A few hours after BP's well was declared virtually dead, the Obama administration announced Wednesday that only about 26 percent of the oil spilled in the Gulf of Mexico was unaccounted for.

"A significant amount of this," said Jane Lubchenco, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, "is a direct result of the very robust federal response efforts."

But, in interviews, scientists who worked on the report said the figures were based in large part on assumptions and estimates with a significant margin of error.

Some outside scientists went further: In a situation in which many facts remain murky, they said, the government seemed to have used interpretations that made the gulf -- and the federal efforts to save it -- look as good as possible.

"There's a lot of . . . smoke and mirrors in this report," said Ian MacDonald, a professor of biological oceanography at Florida State University. "It seems very reassuring, but the data aren't there to actually bear out the assurances that were made."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/04/AR2010080407082.html

Quote:
“At least 50 percent of the oil that was released is now completely gone from the system,” Jane Lubchenco, administrator of NOAA, said during a press conference at the White House. “And most of the remainder is degrading rapidly or is being removed from the beaches.”

50 percent of the oil would be ten times the amount of oil in the Exxon Valdez disaster. Now it's magically "gone from the system"? Sounds like bullshit to me. More like "swept under the rug".
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it's correct. Oil doesn't last long in the environment.

You may know that when oil oxidizes, it releases a tremendous amount of energy.

You may also know that oil is chemically similar to the lipids that make fat fatty.

You may also know that when, for instances, whales die, bacteria eat their bodies, including their massive amounts of fat and oil.

You may also know that bacteria reproduce exponentially as long as there is enough food and oxygen.

During an oil release like this one, where a lot of oil is mixed into the deep ocean, the bacteria engorge themselves. They reproduce extremely rapidly, as long as there is oxygen in the water, and when they run out of oxygen, anaerobic bacteria swoop in to take their place. The only impediments to bacteria eating all the oil are when the oil is not mixed into the water very well and when environmental factors interfere. During the Exxon Valdez spill, all the oil was in a thick layer on the surface, and it was too cold for the bacteria to live comfortably. This spill is in the much warmer Gulf, and was released at the bottom of the ocean - it had 5,000ft of water to bubble through and mix into before it reached the surface. We still have the tarballs to 'worry' about, but honestly, who gives a shit? They're not ecologically active, they don't poison anything, they're just gross. Bad for tourists, I guess, which is bad for florida, but otherwise, nobody cares.

The real question is - since the Obama administration not only knows this, but is loudly proclaiming the great news that the oil spill didn't hurt the environment - why are they continuing the moratorium on drilling?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But... scientists without consensus! I'm so used to their being a "Consensus of the Global Scientific Community" on everything, that now... now I don't know what to feel. :cry:
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigeon768 wrote:
No, it's correct. Oil doesn't last long in the environment.

You may know that when oil oxidizes, it releases a tremendous amount of energy.

You may also know that oil is chemically similar to the lipids that make fat fatty.

You may also know that when, for instances, whales die, bacteria eat their bodies, including their massive amounts of fat and oil.

You may also know that bacteria reproduce exponentially as long as there is enough food and oxygen.

During an oil release like this one, where a lot of oil is mixed into the deep ocean, the bacteria engorge themselves. They reproduce extremely rapidly, as long as there is oxygen in the water, and when they run out of oxygen, anaerobic bacteria swoop in to take their place. The only impediments to bacteria eating all the oil are when the oil is not mixed into the water very well and when environmental factors interfere. During the Exxon Valdez spill, all the oil was in a thick layer on the surface, and it was too cold for the bacteria to live comfortably. This spill is in the much warmer Gulf, and was released at the bottom of the ocean - it had 5,000ft of water to bubble through and mix into before it reached the surface. We still have the tarballs to 'worry' about, but honestly, who gives a shit? They're not ecologically active, they don't poison anything, they're just gross. Bad for tourists, I guess, which is bad for florida, but otherwise, nobody cares.

The real question is - since the Obama administration not only knows this, but is loudly proclaiming the great news that the oil spill didn't hurt the environment - why are they continuing the moratorium on drilling?


It's true. It's just like when we dump enormous amounts of nitrogen in the water. Algae growth booms, life flourishes and oxygen levels drop to near 0% while every other multi cellular organism dies.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
It's true. It's just like when we dump enormous amounts of nitrogen in the water. Algae growth booms, life flourishes and oxygen levels drop to near 0% while every other multi cellular organism dies.
And a few weeks later, the water circulates out, and nothing of value is lost.

Harmful algae blooms are a naturally occurring phenomenon. Hell, they probably predate multicellular life, but there wasn't any multicellular life around back then to be harmful to.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it's true, the ocean is over it pretty quickly, if the oil doesn't float in huge patches. The coast aren't.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite part is that the government decided when BP could go forward with doing something. As if they know how to cap a well.


pigeon768 wrote:
Harmful algae blooms are a naturally occurring phenomenon. Hell, they probably predate multicellular life, but there wasn't any multicellular life around back then to be harmful to.
Is oil of this nature "safe" for these organisms to consume? I can consume fish with high-levels of mercury, but that doesn't make it good for me to do.

Also, what about the large algae blooms which are causing "dead zones?" I have been led to believe by the media reporting on the science community that those were "really, really bad" and something they didn't understand well, or have any idea how to solve. And in the meantime, it is killing off sea-life in dangerous proportions.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vividly recall Rush Limbaugh saying, "Folks, I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but nature WILL take care of this" on day THREE of the disaster.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I vividly recall Rush Limbaugh saying, "Folks, I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but nature WILL take care of this" on day THREE of the disaster.
More importantly, didn't the media criticize him over it*?


* OK, they criticize him over everything, so I can't really recall if they did over this one or not. Seems like they would have.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I vividly recall Rush Limbaugh saying, "Folks, I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but nature WILL take care of this" on day THREE of the disaster.
More importantly, didn't the media criticize him over it*?


* OK, they criticize him over everything, so I can't really recall if they did over this one or not. Seems like they would have.

They raked him over the coals for it, claiming that he said we should do nothing. And yet again, he had to come on the air the next day, and say, "That's NOT what I said!"
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
And yet again, he had to come on the air the next day, and say, "That's NOT what I said!"
I find it both sad and funny how people react to him. They don't actually listen, of course, then think they can have a valid opinion based on what the media reported, or worse, a transcript.

Every time I've been in the prsence of someone who has criticized him when I have heard the show, they are clearly wrong and ignorant of actual events.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
And yet again, he had to come on the air the next day, and say, "That's NOT what I said!"
I find it both sad and funny how people react to him. They don't actually listen, of course, then think they can have a valid opinion based on what the media reported, or worse, a transcript.

Every time I've been in the prsence of someone who has criticized him when I have heard the show, they are clearly wrong and ignorant of actual events.

I keep a prime example of this on my VPS.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder, if our Government had responded more swiftly with the dispersant (instead of it still sitting on pallets a month after the disaster while they wrung their hands over whether to use it), if we could have avoided most of the environmental and economic damage?

I seem to remember local government officials bitching up a storm about that.

I wonder why nobody's asking that question now?

Oh, wait, I know why: our Government is rewriting history, telling us that there was a "swift and robust federal response". :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
if we could have avoided most of the environmental and economic damage?
That wouldn't have helped to create the BP slush fund though.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let the market decide.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
if we could have avoided most of the environmental and economic damage?
That wouldn't have helped to create the BP slush fund though.


"Why let a perfectly good crisis go to waste."
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
if we could have avoided most of the environmental and economic damage?
That wouldn't have helped to create the BP slush fund though.


"Why let a perfectly good crisis go to waste."

Ah yeah, that's a Deadfish quote if i remember correctly.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
if we could have avoided most of the environmental and economic damage?
That wouldn't have helped to create the BP slush fund though.


"Why let a perfectly good crisis go to waste."

Ah yeah, that's a Deadfish quote if i remember correctly.


Rahm Emmanuel. (Soon to be unemployed Rahm Emmanuel.)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
if we could have avoided most of the environmental and economic damage?
That wouldn't have helped to create the BP slush fund though.


"Why let a perfectly good crisis go to waste."

Ah yeah, that's a Deadfish quote if i remember correctly.


Rahm Emmanuel. (Soon to be unemployed Rahm Emmanuel.)

Hence his designation of deadfish. :wink:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Rahm Emmanuel. (Soon to be unemployed Rahm Emmanuel.)
He's not going to be unemployed, just wanting to spend more time with his family.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Rahm Emmanuel. (Soon to be unemployed Rahm Emmanuel.)
He's not going to be unemployed, just wanting to spend more time with his family.


Yeah, that's his story. I think what's really going on is that he and Obama's other principal advisor, David Axelrod, have had a falling out and one of them had to go, and it wasn't going to be Axelrod, who has been "Obama's brain" for a long time (which is unfortunate, since he's more of a propagandist than a strategist). Because of his disagreement with their strategy, Obama's other close advisors are making him the scapegoat for Obama's largely failed agenda.

Quote:
Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, is expected to leave his job in six to eight months after growing tired of the "idealism" of Barack Obama's inner circle.
Quote:
It is well known in Washington that arguments have developed between pragmatic Mr Emanuel, a veteran in Congress where he was known for driving through compromises, and the idealistic inner circle who followed Mr Obama to the White House.

His abrasive style has rubbed some people the wrong way, while there has been frustration among Mr Obama's closest advisers that he failed to deliver a smooth ride for the president's legislative programme that his background promised.

"It might not be his fault, but the perception is there," said the consultant, who asked not to be named. "Every vote has been tough, from health care to energy to financial reform.

"Democrats have not stood behind the president in the way Republicans did for George W Bush, and that was meant to be Rahm's job."

There were sharp differences over health care reform, with Mr Emanuel arguing that public hostility about cost should have forced them into producing a scaled down package. Mr Obama and advisers including David Axelrod, the chief strategist, and Valerie Jarrett, a businesswoman and mentor from Chicago, decided to push through with grander legislation anyway.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/7837686/Rahm-Emanuel-expected-to-quit-White-House.html
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
pigeon768 wrote:
Harmful algae blooms are a naturally occurring phenomenon. Hell, they probably predate multicellular life, but there wasn't any multicellular life around back then to be harmful to.
Is oil of this nature "safe" for these organisms to consume? I can consume fish with high-levels of mercury, but that doesn't make it good for me to do.
Yes. It's unicellular life - they don't get sick, they either die or don't die. Oil is naturally quite common in the environment - life has long since learned to live with it.
pjp wrote:
Also, what about the large algae blooms which are causing "dead zones?" I have been led to believe by the media reporting on the science community that those were "really, really bad" and something they didn't understand well, or have any idea how to solve. And in the meantime, it is killing off sea-life in dangerous proportions.
Yes, the spill will (probably) result in a large dead zone. Fish will leave or die, crabs and shrimp will leave or die, anything that can't leave will die. The important thing to remember about dead zones is that they are not permanent - the water in the gulf mixes quite well with the rest of the Atlantic- the oxygen depleted water will mix in with the rest of the ocean and the dead zone, if there is one, will be gone in a few weeks/months.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So all in all, this oils spill was a good thing then. It's making lots of yummy bacteria for the sea life to eat. It'll probably help with Global Warming. Maybe some of those fat Southerners lost some weight. And they got their beaches picked up for free. They should be thanking the Government.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigeon768 wrote:
zixnub wrote:
It's true. It's just like when we dump enormous amounts of nitrogen in the water. Algae growth booms, life flourishes and oxygen levels drop to near 0% while every other multi cellular organism dies.
And a few weeks later, the water circulates out, and nothing of value is lost.

Harmful algae blooms are a naturally occurring phenomenon. Hell, they probably predate multicellular life, but there wasn't any multicellular life around back then to be harmful to.


That is totally not true. If you dump nitrogen in a lake, you will get a bloom. How is that in any way "natural"? Just because something can happen due to a natural cause doesn't mean that it is "natural" or even desirable in every case.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drizek wrote:
pigeon768 wrote:
zixnub wrote:
It's true. It's just like when we dump enormous amounts of nitrogen in the water. Algae growth booms, life flourishes and oxygen levels drop to near 0% while every other multi cellular organism dies.
And a few weeks later, the water circulates out, and nothing of value is lost.

Harmful algae blooms are a naturally occurring phenomenon. Hell, they probably predate multicellular life, but there wasn't any multicellular life around back then to be harmful to.


That is totally not true. If you dump nitrogen in a lake, you will get a bloom. How is that in any way "natural"? Just because something can happen due to a natural cause doesn't mean that it is "natural" or even desirable in every case.


You mean like this natural phenomenon?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwb3FDkxfgQ
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