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ppurka
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Is there a nice interface to xdg-utils? Reply with quote

Is there any nice (desktop-agnostic) interface to configure all the stuff that xdg-utils can configure or run? It is a nightmare to try to modify anything that relates to xdg-* stuff. Given that it has been years since the xdg-utils has been around, I suppose there is already some program which can do so. If so, what is it?
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Dominique_71
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beside the xdg-utils, the only one I know is xdg-user-dirs.

And I know no GUI. These functionalities are built-in into the desktop normally. I write a script for fvwm-crystal that add support for the localized xdg user directories, and create them when needed. If they don't exist. To add xdg support, I think you have to write some scripts for that.

Also, be aware that xdg-desktop-menu is a calamity that doesn't even support the additional free-desktop categories by default. and gentoo only provide that default implementation. Some desktop may be able to support these additional categories, but most of them doesn't support them by default. Some distributions like debian can have their own menu system, which work in any wm/desktop. Some distributions can improve the files in /etc/xdg, but not gentoo for what I know (I use mostly fvwm-crystal from many years ago now).

With the desktops, a notable exception is fvwm-crystal, which have its own menu system, and only use the desktop files provided by the applications to create the entries in its menu. With this, it have full support for these additional categories, and that independently of the distribution in use and the files in /etc/xdg. :D And yes, it is configurable/editable by the user. This is, from all the desktops I try, the one that require less maintenance by the user.
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Last edited by Dominique_71 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lost+found
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
... a notable exception is fvwm-crystal, which have its own menu system...

Not to make this a Fvwm-Crystal thread, :wink: but it's menu script is amazing. I think I'll move to Fvwm-Crystal, after 10 years of good old KDE anyway.
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Dominique_71
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lost+found wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
... a notable exception is fvwm-crystal, which have its own menu system...

Not to make this a Fvwm-Crystal thread, :wink: but it's menu script is amazing. I think I'll move to Fvwm-Crystal, after 10 years of good old KDE anyway.

You will be surprised by the steps forwards. I just made a separated thread.
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ppurka
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, what I gather from this discussion is that xdg-* is yet another half-baked implementation with no desktop agnostic interface. Not surprised given how the low level configurations in linux is being tinkered with and made worse and worse over time, with no end in sight.
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Dominique_71
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The applications with a GUI provide desktop file(s), which are simple text files describing the applications (name, executable, free-desktop category,...), and xdg-desktop-menu provide the base architecture of the applications menus in /etc/xdg. These files comes with the desktop, and the application menu use them and the desktop files (in /usr/share/applications) to generate the menu. xdg-desktop-menu in most desktops is broken because it doesn't handle the additional categories found in many desktop files.

As example, if you take fvwm-menu-desktop with plain fvwm, the additional categories will work in Debain because debian take care of maintaining its own menu system, which handle them, but not on gentoo and many other distributions because they just provide what upstream provide for /etc/xdg. The fault is not with the distributions, but with the files in /etc/xdg provided by the desktops (by upstream). Most desktops are in the same logic than other OS: the never the better, and they just forget some of the core functionalities.

We can also talk about mouse focus policies, but that another subject... And here also, fvwm is the best of all wm of all OS I know.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
And here also, fvwm is the best of all wm of all OS I know.
Yes. I used FVWM for quite some time before I moved to e17. I was able to make the switch to e17 because the WM was highly configurable, including many varied mouse focus policies. I still maintain that FVWM is more customizable that e, although it comes with a price - the customization is not easy :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
FVWM is more customizable that e, although it comes with a price - the customization is not easy :)


That's one of the reason why I like Fvwm-Crystal. With it, I can focus on one think at a time. It remain that fvwm is not that hard, but it's huge list of command and options, together with their interoperability, make it very complex. With Crystal, some modifications can be quite easy, when it can be quite time consuming with other functions. As example, it take me hours, in 2 separate try, to fix the FvwmExpose clone function in Crystal, when all that was needed was to separate the function in 2 in order to get the thumbnails into the correct order, and to introduce a very small delay to get them synchronized with the window visibility..

Also, fvwm is quite different from all the other wm, because it is not only a wm, but also a toolkit for the Xlib at the same time. I want Crystal to be modern. As example, I took the font selector from fvwm-themes, which is very nice, but very conservative with its core fonts support. It was almost fully rewritten with full xft and gettext support, and a few other improvements like the ability to save and restore the example string. I think with more time and work, it should even be possible to apply font changes to the gtk and qt themes from this font selector.
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