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grey_dot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
grey_dot wrote:
iamben wrote:
That was for you, that's how you get commit access to portage, so you can help fix this stuff.


Once again, read the document you have linked and then read the question from my original post which is - how can I avoid all that definitely excessive bureaucracy and just get stuff working? See what I mean?


By putting your hand on a more useful place than your face. No, we don't see what you mean; we became developers without any hassle, stuff is working fine here...


If stuff is working fine, how comes the gentoo quality is slowly going down the sewers? Why do you have an assload of ebuilds bugged? And why are you (and by you I mean the whole gentoo staff) is constantly whining for years about being understaffed?


Last edited by grey_dot on Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grey_dot wrote:
If stuff is working fine, how comes the gentoo quality is going down the sewers?


Which measurement results is this question based on? Can you show them so we know what you are even talking about?

grey_dot wrote:
Why do you have an assload of ebuilds bugged?


You can report bugs at https://bugs.gentoo.org because as long as you don't do so it's only in your mind.

grey_dot wrote:
And why are you (and by you I mean the whole gentoo staff) is constantly whining for years about being understaffed?


I wouldn't call it whining, but... There is an endless amount of work. Are you going to prove that there is an end to it?
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grey_dot
Tux's lil' helper
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
grey_dot wrote:
If stuff is working fine, how comes the gentoo quality is going down the sewers?


Which measurement results is this question based on? Can you show them so we know what you are even talking about?

Check this out
https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&list_id=1752854&query_format=specific&order=changeddate&limit=0

This list contains 10000 open bugs, but I suppose thats some internal limit in bugzilla, and the list actually is larger.

TomWij wrote:
grey_dot wrote:
Why do you have an assload of ebuilds bugged?


You can report bugs at https://bugs.gentoo.org because as long as you don't do so it's only in your mind.


Tell me that the list linked above is in my mind.
TomWij wrote:

grey_dot wrote:
And why are you (and by you I mean the whole gentoo staff) is constantly whining for years about being understaffed?


I wouldn't call it whining, but... There is an endless amount of work. Are you going to prove that there is an end to it?


And I call it whining because it is whining. If you don't name things what they are, they don't stop being what they are. If you stop calling one a moron and begin being all friendly and kind, that won't make the guy suddenly smart - he still is and will be a moron. Stop making stupid excuses and admit that you (and by you again I mean the whole gentoo staff) have a problem, and you are unable to solve it (actually, you did it before, but doing it again won't hurt).
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iamben
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry that you seem to have given up on gentoo, but lots of us are still loving it! We'll be here if you decide to rejoin us some time.
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grey_dot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iamben wrote:
I'm sorry that you seem to have given up on gentoo, but lots of us are still loving it! We'll be here if you decide to rejoin us some time.


I have not given up on gentoo, otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to do something. I have just abandoned all hope for its staff to get things done. Mostly because of their incompetence.
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iamben
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang dude, that's harsh
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:
grey_dot wrote:
If stuff is working fine, how comes the gentoo quality is going down the sewers?


Which measurement results is this question based on? Can you show them so we know what you are even talking about?

Check this out
https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&list_id=1752854&query_format=specific&order=changeddate&limit=0

This list contains 10000 open bugs, but I suppose thats some internal limit in bugzilla, and the list actually is larger.


How are "new package / ebuild requests" for potentionally dead upstream software that don't reflect our Portage tree considered quality measurement results? This makes no sense.

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:
grey_dot wrote:
Why do you have an assload of ebuilds bugged?


You can report bugs at https://bugs.gentoo.org because as long as you don't do so it's only in your mind.


Tell me that the list linked above is in my mind.


No, it isn't; because most of those aren't actual bugs but rather requests, refine your results and actually look into them instead of giving random query results.

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:

grey_dot wrote:
And why are you (and by you I mean the whole gentoo staff) is constantly whining for years about being understaffed?


I wouldn't call it whining, but... There is an endless amount of work. Are you going to prove that there is an end to it?


And I call it whining because it is whining. If you don't name things what they are, they don't stop being what they are.


I call your response rant because it is rant. If you don't show why things are the way they are, then stop using these things because you're doing more harm than good.

grey_dot wrote:
If you stop calling one a moron and begin being all friendly and kind, that won't make the guy suddenly smart - he still is and will be a moron. Stop making stupid excuses and admit that you (and by you again I mean the whole gentoo staff) have a problem, and you are unable to solve it (actually, you did it before, but doing it again won't hurt).


You're the one making excuses here because you can't prove your point or refute ours, just admit that you yourself are wrong; stop being a hater and show some respect, but well, haters gonna hate.

I don't have any problem; if I have one, feel free to point me at it and prove that I have a problem...

grey_dot wrote:
iamben wrote:
I'm sorry that you seem to have given up on gentoo, but lots of us are still loving it! We'll be here if you decide to rejoin us some time.


I have not given up on gentoo, otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to do something. I have just abandoned all hope for its staff to get things done. Mostly because of their incompetence.


What exactly are you trying to do? Abandoning hope because of your own incompetence to 1) point out our incompetence, 2) contribute yourself and 3) actually respect free work people do in their free time?


Last edited by TomWij on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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grey_dot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:

How are "new package / ebuild requests" for potentionally dead upstream software that don't reflect our Portage tree considered quality measurement results? This makes no sense.

It perfectly measures the gentoo staff work quality.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=Bug%2C%20PATCH%2C%20NeedPatch%2C%20REGRESSION%2C%20&keywords_type=anywords&list_id=1752930&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&order=changeddate&limit=0
Still amost a thousand.

TomWij wrote:

You're the one making excuses here because you can't prove your point and refute ours; stop being a hater and show some respect, but well, haters gonna hate.


Linking some stupid gifs and calling me a hater is obviously what a grown up not retarded person would do to prove his point.


Last edited by grey_dot on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:
grey_dot wrote:

Check this out
https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&list_id=1752854&query_format=specific&order=changeddate&limit=0

This list contains 10000 open bugs, but I suppose thats some internal limit in bugzilla, and the list actually is larger.


How are "new package / ebuild requests" for potentionally dead upstream software that don't reflect our Portage tree considered quality measurement results? This makes no sense.

It perfectly measures the gentoo staff work quality.


Since you don't know what measurements (we're still waiting for them), gentoo staff (not gentoo developers), work (try contributing) and quality (try defining it) are; your conclusion is nowhere near perfect.

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:

You're the one making excuses here because you can't prove your point and refute ours; stop being a hater and show some respect, but well, haters gonna hate.


Linking some stupid gifs and calling me a hater is obviously what a grown up not retarded person would do to prove his point.


This response shows your ignorance to prove yourself, I take it that you agree with the rest of my post you decided not to reply to; furthermore, I have no further points to prove, but you still do... ;)

How exactly are words like "what a grown up" and "retarded" not hating? Here, have another one: http://style.mtv.com/2013/05/19/taylor-swift-billboard-music-awards-performance/


Last edited by TomWij on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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iamben
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I read the bug count, especially if you look at how many we've closed too... gentoo is already pretty great but lots of people still have lots of great ideas & aspirations to make things even better. There's never been a better time to be a gentoo user.
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grey_dot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:

Since you don't know what measurements, gentoo staff (!= gentoo developers), work and quality are; your conclusion is nowhere near perfect.


https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442958
Bug, patch included.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399433
Bug, patch included.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314501
Bug, need patch.

I can look for that stuff all night long.

TomWij wrote:

How are words like "what a grown up" and "retarded" not hating?

Because if it was hate, I would have strongly adviced you to rip off your jaw and stab yourself in the face to death with it. See the difference?
I used the words 'grown up' and 'not retarded' because you definitely stopped looking like an adult smart person right after posting those gifs.


Last edited by grey_dot on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:

How are words like "what a grown up" and "retarded" not hating?

Because if it was hate, I would have strongly adviced you to rip off your jaw and stab yourself in the face to death with it. See the difference?

Oh big difference you pedantic twat. FFS you behaved like an utter pr1ck on that bug, and you're doing the same now. Just step away from the keyboard and get some time out. You're either burning out, or you've always been a complete and utter dickhead. Pick one.

Just spare the rest of us any more of your ranting.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:

Since you don't know what measurements, gentoo staff (!= gentoo developers), work and quality are; your conclusion is nowhere near perfect.


https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=442958
Bug, patch included.


1. Patch not properly attached.
2. Keywords not changed to unstable, revision not changed.
3. No reason to drop perl, since the maintainer has it there very likely for a good reason; if not, a separate bug should likely document it.
4. vim-syntax USE should not pull in vim itself, horrible; it's not a run time dependency.
5. libfffi shouldn't be default.
6. redundant ${ECONF_SOURCE}/gentoo-build, should be set in ${S} instead
7. Likely doesn't use EAPI 5, there are dies behind the emake calls.
8. Can you contribute the developers a PPC machine they can test the cross compilation on?

grey_dot wrote:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399433
Bug, patch included.


Which patch? Attachments is empty.

grey_dot wrote:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314501
Bug, need patch.


Waiting for response from an user, a patch or upstream

grey_dot wrote:
I can look for that stuff all night long.


None of above is directly actionable under the form of applying a change to the Portage tree but instead require considerable effort.

You see what we're getting at? So, yes, maybe you could look for stuff all night long; you'll need to gather quite some to get some reliable statistics...

grey_dot wrote:
TomWij wrote:

How are words like "what a grown up" and "retarded" not hating?

Because if it was hate, I would have strongly adviced you to rip off your jaw and stab yourself in the face to death with it. See the difference?

I used the words 'grown up' and 'not retarded' because you definitely stopped looking like an adult smart person right after posting those gifs.


No, I don't spend time grading responses that contain hate; the smallest bit is enough, not to forget that this all started out with a tantrum. The gifs have a meaning, you're yet to discover it...


Last edited by TomWij on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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consus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:

8. Can you contribute the developers a PPC machine they can test the cross compilation on?


http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-qemu-development/
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

consus wrote:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-qemu-development/


When we can, we prefer to run on actual fast hardware compared to slow virtualized solutions; the longer the solution takes, the longer the bugs can wait...
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consus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
consus wrote:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-qemu-development/


When we can, we prefer to run on actual fast hardware compared to slow virtualized solutions; the longer the solution takes, the longer the bugs can wait...


Right, you need fast hardware to build one package. Stupid excuse, really.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

consus wrote:
TomWij wrote:
consus wrote:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-qemu-development/


When we can, we prefer to run on actual fast hardware compared to slow virtualized solutions; the longer the solution takes, the longer the bugs can wait...


Right, you need fast hardware to build one package. Stupid excuse, really.


As if the Portage tree exists of only one big package. Stupid excuse, really.
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consus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
consus wrote:
TomWij wrote:
consus wrote:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-qemu-development/


When we can, we prefer to run on actual fast hardware compared to slow virtualized solutions; the longer the solution takes, the longer the bugs can wait...


Right, you need fast hardware to build one package. Stupid excuse, really.


As if the Portage tree exists of only one big package. Stupid excuse, really.


Err... You need to test _ONE_ buggy package. Why do you need the whole portage tree?
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

consus wrote:
TomWij wrote:
consus wrote:
TomWij wrote:
consus wrote:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-qemu-development/


When we can, we prefer to run on actual fast hardware compared to slow virtualized solutions; the longer the solution takes, the longer the bugs can wait...


Right, you need fast hardware to build one package. Stupid excuse, really.


As if the Portage tree exists of only one big package. Stupid excuse, really.


Err... You need to test _ONE_ buggy package. Why you need the whole portage tree?


Is there only one buggy package in the whole portage tree? Do other bugs and dependencies suddenly no longer exist? I think not.
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iamben
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that this whole big thing is a volunteer effort. It's not very nice to start tossing insults at every random dev you contact just because you haven't yet found a dev who is willing and able to work on the specific issue you're looking at. Keep at it and keep being nice to the devs and I'm sure you'll find one who can help =)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:

Is there only one buggy package in the whole portage tree? Do other bugs and dependencies suddenly no longer exist? I think not.


We are talking about you requesting a PPC machine for tests. You do not need that. You have QEMU. Furthermore, you can reuse your virtual machine for another packages. Cool stuff, huh?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

consus wrote:
TomWij wrote:

Is there only one buggy package in the whole portage tree? Do other bugs and dependencies suddenly no longer exist? I think not.


We are talking about you requesting PPC machine for tests. You do not need that. You have QEMU. Furthermore, you can reuse your virtual machine for another packages. Cool stuff, huh?


You have clearly missed the point; machines are faster than QEMU allowing us to satisfy you faster, that way you don't need to wait longer. Cool thoughts, huh?


Last edited by TomWij on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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consus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:

You have clearly missed the point; machines are faster than QEMU allowing us to satisfy you faster, that way you don't need to wait longer. Cool thoughts, huh?


So you are not using QEMU at all, even if you haven't got the machines? Pretty stupid, don't you think?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

consus wrote:
TomWij wrote:

You have clearly missed the point; machines are faster than QEMU allowing us to satisfy you faster, that way you don't need to wait longer. Cool thoughts, huh?


So you are not using QEMU at all, even if you haven't got the machines? Pretty stupid, don't you think?


Perhaps you should look into the Gentoo Infrastructure before pointing out things like QEMU, we surely do have machines. Now I will leave you guessing why we need more machines.

We're not as stupid as you may think, and we're certainly not high like you have just stated in your previous deleted post; why would you think such thing?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:


Perhaps you should look into the Gentoo Infrastructure before pointing out things like QEMU, we surely do have machines. Now I will leave you guessing why we need more machines.

We're not as stupid as you may think, and we're certainly not high like you have just stated in your previous deleted post; why would you think such thing?


So you do have the machines, but this developer can't use them? For almost a year? Pretty stupid, don't you think?
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