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ckid113
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: GNOME2 vs MATE Reply with quote

From running `layman -i mate`:

Code:

 * Quality : experimental
 *
 * Description:
 *   Sabayon MATE (GNOME fork) ebuilds that could be upstreamed at some point in future (when GNOME2 will be dropped from the main tree). Bugs to http://bugs.sabayon.org


I was successful to emerge gnome-light and now have GNOME 2. However I noticed that there are packages GNOME 2 versions of which are removed from portage. For example media-gfx/eog-2.32 is present but no media-gfx/eog-plugins:

Code:

# ls /usr/portage/media-gfx/eog/
ChangeLog  Manifest  eog-2.32.1.ebuild  eog-3.6.2.ebuild  eog-3.8.0.ebuild  eog-3.8.2.ebuild  files  metadata.xml
# ls /usr/portage/media-gfx/eog-plugins/
ChangeLog  Manifest  eog-plugins-3.6.1-r1.ebuild  eog-plugins-3.8.0.ebuild  eog-plugins-3.8.1.ebuild  metadata.xml


Notice that eog-plugins start from version 3.6. Is this possible to get these ebuilds back?

I believe gnome 3 is unusable, the ideas are stupid and counterintuitive. As GNOME 2 users wouldn't like it, it would be logical to call it somehow else - not GNOME 3 but for example SHIT 1 because it's not a new version but completely different thing. Unfortunately upstream developers did not take this into consideration. And now I do not know what to do. Is this possible to install mate along with GNOME 2 installation? Are there any conflicts? What is the stability of mate build?

The idea to have one application with several tabs is the most inconvenient idea I can imagine. I work on many projects simultaneously and each project is on separate work space where I have opened all windows - text editor to edit code, console to compile & run, web browser to view documentation. If text editor will contain tabs from all these projects in single window this will be a complete mess.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me and mr linus torvalds switched to xfce4.... yes gnome3 would be more appropriately named that. gnome2 was so slick. i had it on my desktop for a bit, my laptop that just got synced from 41 days ago has it on it still. my favorite was xfce4 + xfapplet to load all gnome2 applets. id leave mate and cinnamon to the devs.
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Funtoo Linux - baselayout 2.2.0
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ckid113
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed Mate and I am very happy with it. It's even better than gnome 2, tested most of the functionality and found no bugs at all. Works very well and suits my desktop needs for 100%. I recommend to install Mate to everyone who doesn't like crazy design ideas of gnome developers. The fact that it's in overlay doesn't mean that it's for developers only. It's very stable and solid. Highly recommended.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it looks like cinnamon is gnome3... but with gnome2 feel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_%28user_interface%29

wow mate is pronounced mah tay.... is gnome2 forked with different names for things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_%28desktop_environment%29

i think id personally go with cinnamon because its still gnome 3, only modified to make it reasonable for a desktop. i bet it will have a touch better support as it is using newer packages. this whole subject is well worth investigation.

my only question for original poster is do you use nm-applet, and does network manager work like a dream under mate if you do.
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cat /etc/*-release
Funtoo Linux - baselayout 2.2.0
consider this warning no. 1
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Ku-vxIb3L._SL1500_.jpg
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/666threesixes666
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ckid113
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use this applet so don't know how well it will work. Why not to configure network in /etc/init.d/net ?

Don't think cinnamon can suit my needs. Mate is ideal for my desktop needs: clean and robust desktop without useless and distracting stuff, virtual workspaces for working simultaneously on several projects. That's clearly the purpose of desktop software - to help effectively manage windows, organize them and do any manipulations with them. NOT to force user to use inconvenient tools just because gnome developers got crazy idea.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/etc/init.d/net is slower to load at boot than network manager especially for multiple network interfaces like wired & wireless on same box. wireless can have many access points to choose from, with wep/wpa/wpa2 key info etc etc etc.... 1 file to manage 10+ roaming networks is a bad situation.

mate is gnome2 alternative (id really prefer that for this old slow laptop)

cinnamon is gnome3 in gnome2 visual mode. for me cinnamon is the choice because its in the main portage tree, and i dont have to mess with overlays.
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cat /etc/*-release
Funtoo Linux - baselayout 2.2.0
consider this warning no. 1
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Ku-vxIb3L._SL1500_.jpg
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/666threesixes666
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sgarcia
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
/etc/init.d/net is slower to load at boot than network manager especially for multiple network interfaces like wired & wireless on same box. wireless can have many access points to choose from, with wep/wpa/wpa2 key info etc etc etc.... 1 file to manage 10+ roaming networks is a bad situation.


Network Manager is appropriate for a laptop, but all my current Gentoo builds are on desktops. Network Manager is linked to a logged in user -- /etc/init.d/net starts at bootup.

I've also had horrible luck with NM and wired connections. In a classroom with 30 computers running NM, two or three will always be unconnected to the net. Consistently, but not always the same ones. Eliminating NM and switching to regular bootup scripts (Debian, in those cases) solves the problems.

I do use NM on laptops, but other than that, I don't trust it.
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ckid113
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would prefer to use iwconfig and other command line tools in this case but it's a matter of personal taste of course. Also don't think that this tool should be integrated into the desktop, I am sure you can find something with gtk interface in portage tree. If I remember correctly pppoe can be compiled with X USE flag. Relying on desktop specific solutions is bad, especially with developers who don't think too much before removing or deprecating something. For example I was very disappointed after they removed Quanta+ from KDE 4 until I discovered overlays. What I would like to say about overlays: do not be afraid of them. All is needed is to emerge layman, add "source /var/lib/layman/make.conf" into /etc/portage/make.conf and run `layman -a <overlay_name>`. That's all, nothing difficult. Gentoo's main principle is giving a user choices and choosing overlays is part of this philosophy.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol i just spent like 8 hours writing down a wiki of installing cinnamon, in the end it does the usual gnome3 "oh noes" maybe if i merge gnome3 further it will work. as for NM and wired connections ive never seen it drop a wired connection. as for overlays i trust hand compiled sources over that. ive had overlays call non existent packages.
_________________
cat /etc/*-release
Funtoo Linux - baselayout 2.2.0
consider this warning no. 1
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Ku-vxIb3L._SL1500_.jpg
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/666threesixes666
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HenryPeters
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ckid113 wrote:
I installed Mate and I am very happy with it. It's even better than gnome 2, tested most of the functionality and found no bugs at all. Works very well and suits my desktop needs for 100%. I recommend to install Mate to everyone who doesn't like crazy design ideas of gnome developers. The fact that it's in overlay doesn't mean that it's for developers only. It's very stable and solid. Highly recommended.


Just installed Gentoo (using a 'genkernel') from a liveDVD (end of the world version)... Looking for a destop, used to use Gnome 2.x via Debian... Thought of this again, but after a little research, I'm thinking Mate.

I found a page that has some Mate install instructions & it says:

Quote:
Gentoo
Mate is availabe from the mate overlay maintained by gentoo/sabayon developers. The overlay is in laymen so instalation is a breeze.

layman -a mate
emerge -ay mate

Mate is ~arch keyworded so if you run a stable system make sure to add the neccesary entries to package.keywords.

If you also have gnome installed you will run into a blocker between zenity and mate-dialogs. The is due to compat use flag on both and removing it from either one will sort it out.

flaggie mate-extra/mate-dialogs -compat

http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

So my question is this: Is this really all there would be to install Mate... or are there some vital configurations necessary (reminding I use the genkernel in Gentoo)?

And the following raises a question (from the quote above) I do not really understand (clarifications appreciated):

Quote:
Mate is ~arch keyworded so if you run a stable system make sure to add the neccesary entries to package.keywords.


Thanks much.
Henry
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