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Darth Marley
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Darth Marley wrote:
Odds are Zimmerman, and most of his supporters agree.
but you are not on Zimmerman's side in the argument. Why?

Maybe he's racist and all about skin pigmentation, and he just happens to be closer in color to to the perpetrator of this crime (Martin) than the victim (Zimmerman). He's a racist like Obama, who stays stupid, racist shit like, "If I had a son he'd look like ...".

Also, about the only other topic where juniper persistently (and I mean persistently) exhibits this same sort of stubbornly wooden-headed irrationality in the face of facts and logic is the anti-gun propaganda campaign. Every time the left-wing authoritarian collectivists chum the waters with moronic, irrational "ZOMG teh GUUNZ!" bat shit, he's the one of the first ones to whip out his faux-moralistic chub and start beating a drum with it and dancing around the liberal media fire chanting falsehoods, and he's always the the last one to stop.

So, my conclusion is that that juniper's position on this issue may be an extension of his authoritarian-collectivist cult programming.


I never said the shooting wasn't necessary (certainly at the point of the altercation). but the whole situation was unnecessary. a stupid state and society encourages people who are poorly trained to police neighbourhoods. I love how you fling authoritarian around. but you are welcome to keep defending a country and system where such a tragedy occurs.

i am the stubborn one when you have admitted repeatedly in this forum that american's and african americans in particular are violent and then claiming putting guns in everyone's hands is a good answer :roll:


It amazes me that you say poorly trained people are encouraged to police neighborhoods and carry guns.
We do have some loser red-neck cops in certain places.
But nothing about the Zimmerman/Martin case supports such a claim on your part.

I would not encourage you to carry a firearm, conealed or not.
I would in general, not encourage idiots who think Trayvon needs justice to carry firearms.
Nor would I encourage Obama voters to ever be permitted to carry, but that damned 2nd amendment cuts both ways.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Darth Marley wrote:
Odds are Zimmerman, and most of his supporters agree.
but you are not on Zimmerman's side in the argument. Why?

Maybe he's racist and all about skin pigmentation, and he just happens to be closer in color to to the perpetrator of this crime (Martin) than the victim (Zimmerman). He's a racist like Obama, who stays stupid, racist shit like, "If I had a son he'd look like ...".

Also, about the only other topic where juniper persistently (and I mean persistently) exhibits this same sort of stubbornly wooden-headed irrationality in the face of facts and logic is the anti-gun propaganda campaign. Every time the left-wing authoritarian collectivists chum the waters with moronic, irrational "ZOMG teh GUUNZ!" bat shit, he's the one of the first ones to whip out his faux-moralistic chub and start beating a drum with it and dancing around the liberal media fire chanting falsehoods, and he's always the the last one to stop.

So, my conclusion is that that juniper's position on this issue may be an extension of his authoritarian-collectivist cult programming.


I never said the shooting wasn't necessary (certainly at the point of the altercation). but the whole situation was unnecessary. a stupid state and society encourages people who are poorly trained to police neighbourhoods. I love how you fling authoritarian around. but you are welcome to keep defending a country and system where such a tragedy occurs.

i am the stubborn one when you have admitted repeatedly in this forum that american's and african americans in particular are violent and then claiming putting guns in everyone's hands is a good answer :roll:

The "tragedy" here was more like a Darwin Award. Some violent punk assaulted a man just for following him from a distance through a residential neighborhood he had no business in. He committed a fucking violent felony, and he's dead because of it. The only "tragedy" is that he was by some definitions not quite yet an adult (despite being "man" enough to violently assault somebody in their own neighborhood without any kind of reasonable justification).

Trayvon Martin is no victim or helpless little child, he was the perpetrator of a violent felony. Trayvon Martin is no Martyr for civil rights; he committed a fucking rast, homophobic hate crime. Trayvon Martin is no example of injustice, except insofar as his death being abused by manipulative politicians and money-grubbing asshats to their own advantage, and at the expense of a good chunk of the African-American population who apparently don't know better than to believe everything they're told by con men such as Sharpton and Obama, and by the propaganda houses NBC and CNN.

This did not result from an authoritarianism problem; this resulted from the fact that we have a problematic ethnic gang sub-culture that has got many people within society living by a set of rules that are out of line with commonly acceptable behavior and the law. You can't just attack somebody because they pissed you off or made you feel persecuted, suspicious, fearful, or what have you. Self-defense requires real and immediate likelihood of harm. You can't just attack people without justification. People need to get that through their thick fucking heads. Once you do that, all the cards are off the table and it doesn't matter what anybody else did; you simply do not initiate violence.

Many of us are in complete denial about this, especially our liberal-ass media, who are zoomed tightly in on and amplifying the small subset of our population who actually don't understand the concepts of peaceful co-existence, lawful self-defense, and how they go hand-in-hand. They're actually out there with signs saying "Justice for Trayvon", if you can fathom that. Justice for Trayvon would require that he be prosecuted for committing a felonious assault. Thankfully, there aren't that many of them. Even with the massive propaganda campaign by our media, who think this is going to help render the population defenseless to having "teh change" rammed down their throats, and despite our cowardly President fomenting racial tensions as a red herring to distract from his crimes and fuck-ups, there is still only statistically negligible fraction of a percentage of the population actually stupid enough to buy into this crap.

A country where people are allowed to defend themselves from such behavior is not "authoritarian". A country, like yours, where people aren't even allowed to speak the truth about such things, is authoritarian. I will grant you that there are a lot of people at present who are trying hard to make this country just like yours and probably far, far worse, but it's not going to happen without a fight.

One of the nice things about the truth is that it has a way of coming out on its own. It's the liars who have to swim upstream.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Some violent punk assaulted a man just for following him...


A scuffle broke out between an aggressive neighbourhood watch guy and a local boy after the former mistakenly identified the latter as a criminal. In fact, the boy was returning peacefully home from the shops.

BoneKracker wrote:
through a residential neighborhood he had no business in...


A residential neighbourhood where he lived with his father.

BoneKracker wrote:
He committed a fucking violent felony


Zimmerman alleged that Martin committed a savage attack but forensics and other known facts do not tally with many aspects of Zimmerman's tale. Zimmerman is known to have lied to the court previously. He declined to submit to cross-examination.

BoneKracker wrote:
he's dead because of it


He's dead because Zimmerman chose to shoot an unarmed boy.

FTFY
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pantsonfire your analysis of what happened that night does not fit the evidence. Stop making yourself look like a total idiot.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Some violent punk assaulted a man just for following him...


A scuffle broke out between an aggressive neighbourhood watch guy and a local boy after the former mistakenly identified the latter as a criminal. In fact, the boy was returning peacefully home from the shops.

"A scuffle broke out" my ass.

You had a man the police knew as "level headed" and "civic-minded" who had actively worked to help minorities in the past, and who was trained by the police as a citizen watch patrolman, and who knew what he could and couldn't legally do. He had summoned the police and knew they'd be there any moment.

You had a 17 year old, racist, pothead juvenile delinquent under the influence of black gang culture who had a history of violent behavior and had been expelled from school multiple times for various forms of antisocial and criminal behavior and who, moments before, had been talking about the "creepy cracker" following him and had just been warned, twice, that "he better look out 'cause it might one of them gay rapists".

You've got evidence, a careful court verdict, and now even general acknowledgement that the latter initiated the violence -- violence which, had he lived to be arrested, would have landed him jail for felony aggravated assault and battery and possibly (if the court were color blind) a hate crime.

Those are all points of undisputed fact. Your description of the above, carefully using the passive voice (which abstains from assigning responsibility for any actions), is horse shit. It is quite clear whose fault this was.

pantsonfire wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
through a residential neighborhood he had no business in...

A residential neighbourhood where he lived with his father.

Bullshit. He lived with his mother in an entirely different town. Nobody in his family had a residence in Sanford. His father was shacking up with some woman who lived there. Martin was visiting because he had been thrown out of school (again, for the third time). At his school, the police had found several items of women's jewelry and burglary tools in his backpack.

pantsonfire wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
He committed a fucking violent felony
Zimmerman alleged that Martin committed a savage attack but forensics and other known facts do not tally with many aspects of Zimmerman's tale. Zimmerman is known to have lied to the court previously. He declined to submit to cross-examination.

The forensic evidence alone and the testimony of other witnesses is more than enough to have convicted Martin of aggravated assault and battery. Couple that with the conversation testified to by Rachel Jeantel, and you have a hate crime too.

pantsonfire wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
he's dead because of it

He's dead because Zimmerman chose to shoot an unarmed boy.

A lawful act. The unlawful act that directly and justifably precipated that shooting was his assault and battery of Zimmerman. That's what the evidence says. That's what the witnesses said. That's what the court said. That's what the jury unanimously agreed when they ruled "not guilty". The only way you can stipulate to the fact that you shot someone to death and be not guilty is if it is a justifiable homicide. The homicide was justifiable because Martin assaulted and battered Zimmerman. Therefore, it was Martin's assault that caused his own death, quite directly.

Your logic is the same as arguing that a matador who gets gored by a bull after sticking it full of spears is not at fault for his own death: the bull is. And it was probably a racist bull, too, no doubt, even if it was half Peruvian, part black, and a registered Democrat involved in helping the poor and minorities, and who had stood up against the police in the past on behalf of a homeless black man they had beaten.

Pull your head out.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A liberal blogfapper sits down to write a piece joining in the lemming-fest and slamming Zimmerman, but actually does some fact-finding, realizes most of what he's been told is bullshit, and he actually has the balls to admit it publicly. Hallelujah.

He still hasn't gone deep enough, and is still suffering from mind-poisoning, but this glimmer of intellectual honesty may mean there is home for human society after all. Perhaps we are not just a mob of drooling, frothing, idiots living in a mindless echo chamber of populist propaganda and bullshit and spinning our hamster wheels of asininity.
Quote:
Trayvon Martin is dead, George Zimmerman has been acquitted, and millions of people are outraged. Some politicians are demanding a second prosecution of Zimmerman, this time for hate crimes. Others are blaming the tragedy on “Stand Your Ground” laws, which they insist must be repealed. Many who saw the case as proof of racism in the criminal justice system see the verdict as further confirmation. Everywhere you look, people feel vindicated in their bitter assumptions. They want action.

But that’s how Martin ended up dead. It’s how Zimmerman ended up with a bulletproof vest he might have to wear for the rest of his life. It’s how activists and the media embarrassed themselves with bogus reports. The problem at the core of this case wasn’t race or guns. The problem was assumption, misperception, and overreaction. And that cycle hasn’t ended with the verdict. It has escalated.

I almost joined the frenzy. Yesterday I was going to write that Zimmerman pursued Martin against police instructions and illustrated the perils of racial profiling. But I hadn’t followed the case in detail. So I sat down and watched the closing arguments: nearly seven hours of video in which the prosecution and defense went point by point through the evidence as it had been hashed out at the trial. Based on what I learned from the videos, I did some further reading.

It turned out I had been wrong about many things. The initial portrait of Zimmerman as a racist wasn’t just exaggerated. It was completely unsubstantiated.
It’s a case study in how the same kind of bias that causes racism can cause unwarranted allegations of racism. Some of the people Zimmerman had reported as suspicious were black men, so he was a racist. Members of his family seemed racist, so he was a racist. Everybody knew he was a racist, so his recorded words were misheard as racial slurs, proving again that he was a racist.

The 911 dispatcher who spoke to Zimmerman on the fatal night didn’t tell him to stay in his car. Zimmerman said he was following a suspicious person, and the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that." Chief prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda conceded in his closing argument that these words were ambiguous. De la Rionda also acknowledged, based on witness and forensic evidence, that both men “were scraping and rolling and fighting out there.” He pointed out that the wounds, blood evidence, and DNA didn’t match Zimmerman’s story of being thoroughly restrained and pummeled throughout the fight. But the evidence didn’t fit the portrait of Martin as a sweet-tempered child, either. And the notion that Zimmerman hunted down Martin to accost him made no sense. Zimmerman knew the police were on the way. They arrived only a minute or so after the gunshot. The fight happened in a public area surrounded by townhouses at close range. It was hardly the place or time to start shooting.

That doesn’t make Zimmerman a hero. It just makes him a reckless fool instead of a murderer. In a post-verdict press conference, his lawyer, Mark O’Mara, claimed that “the evidence supported that George Zimmerman did nothing wrong,” that “the jury decided that he acted properly in self-defense,” and that Zimmerman “was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense. I’m glad that the jury saw it that way.” That’s complete BS. The only thing the jury decided was that there was reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman had committed second-degree murder or manslaughter.
Zimmerman is guilty, morally if not legally, of precipitating the confrontation that led to Martin’s death. He did many things wrong. Mistake No. 1 was inferring that Martin was a burglar. In his 911 call, Zimmerman cited Martin’s behavior. “It’s raining, and he’s just walking around” looking at houses, Zimmerman said. He warned the dispatcher, “He’s got his hand in his waistband.” He described Martin’s race and clothing only after the dispatcher asked about them. Whatever its basis, the inference was false.

Mistake No. 2 was pursuing Martin on foot. Zimmerman had already done what the neighborhood watch rules advised: He had called the police. They would have arrived, questioned Martin, and ascertained that he was innocent. Instead, Zimmerman, packing a concealed firearm, got out and started walking after Martin. Zimmerman’s initial story, that he was trying to check the name of the street, was so laughable that his attorneys abandoned it. He was afraid Martin would get away. So he followed Martin, hoping to update the cops.
Mistake No. 3 was Zimmerman’s utter failure to imagine how his behavior looked to Martin. You’re a black kid walking home from a convenience store with Skittles and a fruit drink. Some dude in a car is watching and trailing you. God knows what he wants. You run away. He gets out of the car and follows you. What are you supposed to do? In Zimmerman’s initial interrogation, the police expressed surprise that he hadn’t identified himself to Martin as a neighborhood watch volunteer. They suggested that Martin might have been alarmed when Zimmerman reached for an object that Zimmerman, but not Martin, knew was a phone. Zimmerman seemed baffled. He was so convinced of Martin’s criminal intent that he hadn’t considered how Martin, if he were innocent, would perceive his stalker.

Martin, meanwhile, was profiling Zimmerman. On his phone, he told a friend he was being followed by a “creepy-ass cracker.” The friend—who later testified that this phrase meant pervert—advised Martin, “You better run.” She reported, as Zimmerman did, that Martin challenged Zimmerman, demanding to know why he was being hassled. If Zimmerman’s phobic misreading of Martin was the first wrong turn that led to their fatal struggle, Martin’s phobic misreading of Zimmerman may have been the second.

In court, evidence and scrutiny have exposed these difficult, complicated truths. But outside the court, ideologues are ignoring them. They’re oversimplifying a tragedy that was caused by oversimplification. Martin has become Emmett Till. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is using the verdict to attack Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which wasn’t invoked in this case. The grievance industrial complex is pushing the Department of Justice to prosecute Zimmerman for bias-motivated killing, based on evidence that didn’t even support a conviction for unpremeditated killing. Zimmerman’s lawyers have teamed up with members of the Congressional Black Caucus, inadvertently, to promote the false message that Zimmerman’s acquittal means our society thinks everything he did was OK.

It wasn’t OK. It was stupid and dangerous. It led to the unnecessary death of an innocent young man. It happened because two people—their minds clouded by stereotypes that went well beyond race—assumed the worst about one another and acted in haste. If you want to prevent the next Trayvon Martin tragedy, learn from their mistakes. Don’t paint the world in black and white. Don’t declare the whole justice system racist, or blame every gun death on guns, or confuse acquittal with vindication. And the next time you see somebody who looks like a punk or a pervert, hold your fire.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/trayvon_martin_verdict_racism_hate_crimes_prosecution_and_other_overreactions.html
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
A liberal blogfapper sits down to write a piece joining in the lemming-fest and slamming Zimmerman, but actually does some fact-finding, realizes most of what he's been told is bullshit, and he actually has the balls to admit it publicly. Hallelujah.

He still hasn't gone deep enough, and is still suffering from mind-poisoning, but this glimmer of intellectual honesty may mean there is home for human society after all. Perhaps we are not just a mob of drooling, frothing, idiots living in a mindless echo chamber of populist propaganda and bullshit and spinning our hamster wheels of asininity.
Quote:
Trayvon Martin is dead, George Zimmerman has been acquitted, and millions of people are outraged. Some politicians are demanding a second prosecution of Zimmerman, this time for hate crimes. Others are blaming the tragedy on “Stand Your Ground” laws, which they insist must be repealed. Many who saw the case as proof of racism in the criminal justice system see the verdict as further confirmation. Everywhere you look, people feel vindicated in their bitter assumptions. They want action.

But that’s how Martin ended up dead. It’s how Zimmerman ended up with a bulletproof vest he might have to wear for the rest of his life. It’s how activists and the media embarrassed themselves with bogus reports. The problem at the core of this case wasn’t race or guns. The problem was assumption, misperception, and overreaction. And that cycle hasn’t ended with the verdict. It has escalated.

I almost joined the frenzy. Yesterday I was going to write that Zimmerman pursued Martin against police instructions and illustrated the perils of racial profiling. But I hadn’t followed the case in detail. So I sat down and watched the closing arguments: nearly seven hours of video in which the prosecution and defense went point by point through the evidence as it had been hashed out at the trial. Based on what I learned from the videos, I did some further reading.

It turned out I had been wrong about many things. The initial portrait of Zimmerman as a racist wasn’t just exaggerated. It was completely unsubstantiated. It’s a case study in how the same kind of bias that causes racism can cause unwarranted allegations of racism. Some of the people Zimmerman had reported as suspicious were black men, so he was a racist. Members of his family seemed racist, so he was a racist. Everybody knew he was a racist, so his recorded words were misheard as racial slurs, proving again that he was a racist.

The 911 dispatcher who spoke to Zimmerman on the fatal night didn’t tell him to stay in his car. Zimmerman said he was following a suspicious person, and the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that." Chief prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda conceded in his closing argument that these words were ambiguous. De la Rionda also acknowledged, based on witness and forensic evidence, that both men “were scraping and rolling and fighting out there.” He pointed out that the wounds, blood evidence, and DNA didn’t match Zimmerman’s story of being thoroughly restrained and pummeled throughout the fight. But the evidence didn’t fit the portrait of Martin as a sweet-tempered child, either. And the notion that Zimmerman hunted down Martin to accost him made no sense. Zimmerman knew the police were on the way. They arrived only a minute or so after the gunshot. The fight happened in a public area surrounded by townhouses at close range. It was hardly the place or time to start shooting.

That doesn’t make Zimmerman a hero. It just makes him a reckless fool instead of a murderer. In a post-verdict press conference, his lawyer, Mark O’Mara, claimed that “the evidence supported that George Zimmerman did nothing wrong,” that “the jury decided that he acted properly in self-defense,” and that Zimmerman “was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense. I’m glad that the jury saw it that way.” That’s complete BS. The only thing the jury decided was that there was reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman had committed second-degree murder or manslaughter.
Zimmerman is guilty, morally if not legally, of precipitating the confrontation that led to Martin’s death. He did many things wrong. Mistake No. 1 was inferring that Martin was a burglar. In his 911 call, Zimmerman cited Martin’s behavior. “It’s raining, and he’s just walking around” looking at houses, Zimmerman said. He warned the dispatcher, “He’s got his hand in his waistband.” He described Martin’s race and clothing only after the dispatcher asked about them. Whatever its basis, the inference was false.

Mistake No. 2 was pursuing Martin on foot. Zimmerman had already done what the neighborhood watch rules advised: He had called the police. They would have arrived, questioned Martin, and ascertained that he was innocent. Instead, Zimmerman, packing a concealed firearm, got out and started walking after Martin. Zimmerman’s initial story, that he was trying to check the name of the street, was so laughable that his attorneys abandoned it. He was afraid Martin would get away. So he followed Martin, hoping to update the cops.
Mistake No. 3 was Zimmerman’s utter failure to imagine how his behavior looked to Martin. You’re a black kid walking home from a convenience store with Skittles and a fruit drink. Some dude in a car is watching and trailing you. God knows what he wants. You run away. He gets out of the car and follows you. What are you supposed to do? In Zimmerman’s initial interrogation, the police expressed surprise that he hadn’t identified himself to Martin as a neighborhood watch volunteer. They suggested that Martin might have been alarmed when Zimmerman reached for an object that Zimmerman, but not Martin, knew was a phone. Zimmerman seemed baffled. He was so convinced of Martin’s criminal intent that he hadn’t considered how Martin, if he were innocent, would perceive his stalker.

Martin, meanwhile, was profiling Zimmerman. On his phone, he told a friend he was being followed by a “creepy-ass cracker.” The friend—who later testified that this phrase meant pervert—advised Martin, “You better run.” She reported, as Zimmerman did, that Martin challenged Zimmerman, demanding to know why he was being hassled. If Zimmerman’s phobic misreading of Martin was the first wrong turn that led to their fatal struggle, Martin’s phobic misreading of Zimmerman may have been the second.

In court, evidence and scrutiny have exposed these difficult, complicated truths. But outside the court, ideologues are ignoring them. They’re oversimplifying a tragedy that was caused by oversimplification. Martin has become Emmett Till. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is using the verdict to attack Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which wasn’t invoked in this case. The grievance industrial complex is pushing the Department of Justice to prosecute Zimmerman for bias-motivated killing, based on evidence that didn’t even support a conviction for unpremeditated killing. Zimmerman’s lawyers have teamed up with members of the Congressional Black Caucus, inadvertently, to promote the false message that Zimmerman’s acquittal means our society thinks everything he did was OK.

It wasn’t OK. It was stupid and dangerous. It led to the unnecessary death of an innocent young man. It happened because two people—their minds clouded by stereotypes that went well beyond race—assumed the worst about one another and acted in haste. If you want to prevent the next Trayvon Martin tragedy, learn from their mistakes. Don’t paint the world in black and white. Don’t declare the whole justice system racist, or blame every gun death on guns, or confuse acquittal with vindication. And the next time you see somebody who looks like a punk or a pervert, hold your fire.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/trayvon_martin_verdict_racism_hate_crimes_prosecution_and_other_overreactions.html


It's funny how you can read something, "Hallelujah" the part that agrees with you and dismiss everything else as propaganda bullshit.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rest of it is opinion of no consequence. People are calling for legal action, and there is no basis for it.

I've acknowledged that Zimmerman's behavior was reckless. That, however, is neither a crime nor grounds for any action against him (or all the hate that's been stirred up), and it pales in comparison to what Martin did.

Zimmerman was no racist. Even this article fails to cover all the facts that show that, like when he put himself at odds with the police by backing up a homeless black man they had beaten. What kind of a racist does that?

This whole thing is a bunch of crap started by asshole Sharpton (just like he has started other bullshit, such as getting the whole country up in arms and trying to put those guys on trial who were falsely accused of rape by a black stripper who later admitted she'd made it all up), and then co-opted by the leftists as agitation propaganda against self defense and the right to bear arms. It comes with its own built-in race card, so it's not PC to say much in opposition to it.

It's a load of crap, and people are going to look back on their actions regarding this and be ashamed of themselves.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
blah blah blah


You're so full of shit I don't know where to start.

At the time of the incident, Martin was staying with his father. He had every right to be there. Zimmerman falsely identified him as a criminal and stalked him after dark causing justified alarm.

We don't who started the fight. Nothing could better highlight your cheapness and dishonesty than your continued insistence that you know different. Unless you have psychic powers, you don't. Nor may you characterise Martin as some kind of gay-hating master villain.

Zimmerman's story is at odds with forensic and other evidence on a number of points. We also know he lied to the court before the trial.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, avatar-boy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the protesters assaulted a white TV news reporter today from a CBS affiliate, who was engaged in a calm interview with one of them. They ran up from behind with their faces covered and kicked him to the ground, then ran away. It was caught on camera.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still trying to understand how the killing of Trayvon Martin became national news. He wasn't famous, it didn't happen at a well known event.

At least 1 young black male is killed every other day here in Baltimore and it's an after thought on the news, but there are rallies here protesting the verdict of a trial in Flordia, yet very little is said or done about the murders that happen here on a near daily basis. It makes no sense at all.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because, as the President said, most black American men have had the experience of being followed around a store by a suspicious security guard. On this occasion, an innocent kid got killed but his killer got away scot free.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
...an innocent kid got killed but his killer got away scot free.
I wouldn't say that. I'd say that he's going to be lynched unless he changes his name or leaves the continental US.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
blah blah blah


You're so full of shit I don't know where to start.

At the time of the incident, Martin was staying with his father. He had every right to be there. Zimmerman falsely identified him as a criminal and stalked him after dark causing justified alarm.

We don't who started the fight. Nothing could better highlight your cheapness and dishonesty than your continued insistence that you know different. Unless you have psychic powers, you don't. Nor may you characterise Martin as some kind of gay-hating master villain.

Zimmerman's story is at odds with forensic and other evidence on a number of points. We also know he lied to the court before the trial.


Zimmerman identified him as suspicious, not as a criminal.
by saying you don't know who started the fight, you are privileging the claim that Zimmerman is being dishonest. That is a bias that you should defend with something more than weak rhetoric and fallacious reasoning.

Stalking is not what happened either. Zimmerman was waiting for the cops, while in the words of the woman-child hMartin was speaking with on the phone, Martin decided to "whoop ass."
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Some of the protesters assaulted a white TV news reporter today from a CBS affiliate, who was engaged in a calm interview with one of them. They ran up from behind with their faces covered and kicked him to the ground, then ran away. It was caught on camera.


See "the Knockout Game" for details on the prevalence of this behavior.

I wonder if the "social" reason certain race-baiting figures want to end SYG is they want street thugs to be a protected class and not face death or GBH when they engage in this kind of asshattery.

Where is the outrage over these assailants getting away scot free?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL USA
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
Because, as the President said, most black American men have had the experience of being followed around a store by a suspicious security guard.

That's typical African American self-loathing and paranoia. Most black men have also had the experience of saying, "It's because I'm black, right?!" numerous times in their lives. I've got news for black men -- all white men have had the experience of being followed around a store by a suspicious security guard too, or walking through a neighborhood and having people keep an eye on you.

Once I went for a walk in the woods (in a residential section of a small city in New Hampshire) with my father and two brothers, and we saw across the valley about 300 yards away some teenage boy working in his yard. He saw us too, and he ran inside and came back out with an adult, and both of them were carrying rifles. They watched us carefully, pointing at us and talking. I'm sure that if I had been African American, I'd have grown up confident in the fact that it had happened "just because I'm black".
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Marley wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Some of the protesters assaulted a white TV news reporter today from a CBS affiliate, who was engaged in a calm interview with one of them. They ran up from behind with their faces covered and kicked him to the ground, then ran away. It was caught on camera.


See "the Knockout Game" for details on the prevalence of this behavior.

I wonder if the "social" reason certain race-baiting figures want to end SYG is they want street thugs to be a protected class and not face death or GBH when they engage in this kind of asshattery.

Where is the outrage over these assailants getting away scot free?

That Knockout Game is exactly the behavior I was talking about. I suppose Sharpton would declare they are doing "absolutely nothing wrong" too.

People are only going to take so much of this crap before it gets real ugly.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Once I went for a walk in the woods (in a residential section of a small city in New Hampshire) with my father and two brothers, and we saw across the valley about 300 yards away some teenage boy working in his yard. He saw us too, and he ran inside and came back out with an adult, and both of them were carrying rifles. They watched us carefully, pointing at us and talking. I'm sure that if I had been African American, I'd have grown up confident in the fact that it had happened "just because I'm black".


Probably a couple of the regulars from OTW. Lucky you weren't in range.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Once I went for a walk in the woods (in a residential section of a small city in New Hampshire) with my father and two brothers, and we saw across the valley about 300 yards away some teenage boy working in his yard. He saw us too, and he ran inside and came back out with an adult, and both of them were carrying rifles. They watched us carefully, pointing at us and talking. I'm sure that if I had been African American, I'd have grown up confident in the fact that it had happened "just because I'm black".


Probably a couple of the regulars from OTW. Lucky you weren't in range.

300 yards is within range of just about any rifle you'd use to shoot anything weighing more than about 25 lbs.

Hey, wait. If this happened, then maybe I'm black and I just don't know it. :o
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
Because, as the President said, most black American men have had the experience of being followed around a store by a suspicious security guard. On this occasion, an innocent kid got killed but his killer got away scot free.


Nothing you claim suggests his life and death was more important than 200+/- young black males killed in Baltimore each year. But then, this is the home of the Stop Snitchin' campaign.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start another thread if you want to talk about Baltimore. This one's about the killing of Trayvon Martin.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantsonfire wrote:
Start another thread if you want to talk about Baltimore. This one's about the killing of Trayvon Martin.


Yes. Keep this thread about the Darwin award nominee, Trayvon. Felonious assault against an armed citizen... stupid, stupid, stupid.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Marley wrote:

It amazes me that you say poorly trained people are encouraged to police neighborhoods and carry guns.
We do have some loser red-neck cops in certain places.
But nothing about the Zimmerman/Martin case supports such a claim on your part.

I would not encourage you to carry a firearm, conealed or not.
I would in general, not encourage idiots who think Trayvon needs justice to carry firearms.
Nor would I encourage Obama voters to ever be permitted to carry, but that damned 2nd amendment cuts both ways.


was he well trained?

logic please. I didn't claim all police are good ones.

I don't want to carry a firearm and I don't want to get shot by some ass carrying one either.

So, rights are based on political beliefs? you should work for the IRS. i here they are hiring.
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