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John-Boy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Call me crazy, but I feel pity for the kid. I'm glad he is still alive.


At the moment he is. Those who've had their nearest and dearest put through a blender, would probably
have a different outlook - normally I incline to the death penalty, for this case gen pop may be more fitting.

If proven guilty by a court of law of course.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Call me crazy, but I feel pity for the kid. I'm glad he is still alive.

Society seems to place such a small value on life, and we are too eager to seek an eye for an eye revenge.

I think people are eager to feel compassion for this 19 year old because he's a nice-looking young guy of whom people have spoken highly. However, he did put a bomb down next to innocent women and children that killed, tore people's limbs off, and injured dozens of people, and then shot and threw grenades at numerous people. He has ruined the lives of numerous people, through a brutal, cowardly act of extreme violence.

I say we should interrogate him for about six months, then turn him over to the Russians for a similar period. Then he should be sentenced to death but granted a stay of execution to work in a prison coal mine (which we need to create), with the stay to remain in effect as long as his output remains above remains above a certain level, with all the proceeds of his labor going to his victims.


Last edited by Bones McCracker on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Water board that POS!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I think people are eager to feel compassion for this 19 year old because he's a nice-looking young guy of whom people have spoken highly.
IMO he "looked the part" more than the dead one.

BoneKracker wrote:
He has ruined the lives of numerous people, through a brutal, cowardly act of extreme violence.
Allegedly. But I'm sure that's a minor hurdle since after having primed the jury, all they need is "evidence."
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Old School wrote:
Call me crazy, but I feel pity for the kid. I'm glad he is still alive.

Society seems to place such a small value on life, and we are too eager to seek an eye for an eye revenge.

I think people are eager to feel compassion for this 19 year old because he's a nice-looking young guy of whom people have spoken highly. However, he did put a bomb down next to innocent women and children that killed, tore people's limbs off, and injured dozens of people, and then shot and threw grenades at numerous people. He has ruined the lives of numerous people, through a brutal, cowardly act of extreme violence.

I say we should interrogate him for about six months, then turn him over to the Russians for a similar period. Then he should be sentenced to death but granted a stay of execution to work in a prison coal mine (which we need to create), with the stay to remain in effect as long as his output remains above remains above a certain level, with all the proceeds of his labor going to his victims.


haha ok, to be cut to the bone you think he should work his fingers to the bone in sibiria?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Old School wrote:
Call me crazy, but I feel pity for the kid. I'm glad he is still alive.

Society seems to place such a small value on life, and we are too eager to seek an eye for an eye revenge.

I think people are eager to feel compassion for this 19 year old because he's a nice-looking young guy of whom people have spoken highly. However, he did put a bomb down next to innocent women and children that killed, tore people's limbs off, and injured dozens of people, and then shot and threw grenades at numerous people. He has ruined the lives of numerous people, through a brutal, cowardly act of extreme violence.

I say we should interrogate him for about six months, then turn him over to the Russians for a similar period. Then he should be sentenced to death but granted a stay of execution to work in a prison coal mine (which we need to create), with the stay to remain in effect as long as his output remains above remains above a certain level, with all the proceeds of his labor going to his victims.


haha ok, to be cut to the bone you think he should work his fingers to the bone in sibiria?

Only if doing so will more than offset the cost of his incarceration and also benefit his victims. Otherwise he should be put to death. We used to have prison farms and the like which were more than self-sufficient, but these were difficult to control financially (corruption and such, amounting to slavery) and have given way to costly mass-incarceration in high-security facilities. I think it would be morally progressive to put people to work paying for their own incarceration and to benefit their victims, if it can be done in way that is not abused.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
LoTeK wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Old School wrote:
Call me crazy, but I feel pity for the kid. I'm glad he is still alive.

Society seems to place such a small value on life, and we are too eager to seek an eye for an eye revenge.

I think people are eager to feel compassion for this 19 year old because he's a nice-looking young guy of whom people have spoken highly. However, he did put a bomb down next to innocent women and children that killed, tore people's limbs off, and injured dozens of people, and then shot and threw grenades at numerous people. He has ruined the lives of numerous people, through a brutal, cowardly act of extreme violence.

I say we should interrogate him for about six months, then turn him over to the Russians for a similar period. Then he should be sentenced to death but granted a stay of execution to work in a prison coal mine (which we need to create), with the stay to remain in effect as long as his output remains above remains above a certain level, with all the proceeds of his labor going to his victims.


haha ok, to be cut to the bone you think he should work his fingers to the bone in sibiria?

Only if doing so will more than offset the cost of his incarceration and also benefit his victims. Otherwise he should be put to death. We used to have prison farms and the like which were more than self-sufficient, but these were difficult to control financially (corruption and such, amounting to slavery) and have given way to costly mass-incarceration in high-security facilities. I think it would be morally progressive to put people to work paying for their own incarceration and to benefit their victims, if it can be done in way that is not abused.


good, because if he just goes to prison he will be bone idle and if he would go to sibiria he would be chilled to the bone and after a few weeks only skin and bone.. :D

no seriously now, that would be a good idea if such people have to work for the victims.. The first good idea I have heard in the "how to punish question", my own was always to do medicinal experiments with them so that we can develop better medicaments, but strangly many people consider this so called "inhuman"...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't even do that with chimpanzees any more. Our government has sent them all to a special experimental chimpanzee retirement park.

They other thing they could do with this guy is brainwash the crap out of him, and then send him around the country in a prison jumpsuit and irons, talking to Islamic youths about the error of his ways, how much he regrets it, and how they should tell people trying to radicalize them to fuck off. Tell him if he does a good job at this, he will be granted parole. Then when he's too old to be trusted by youths anymore (30 or so), execute him.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We don't even do that with chimpanzees any more. Our government has sent them all to a special experimental chimpanzee retirement park.

I don't think so, even the european's do this and you know that the europeans are better and consider ethics as more important as you yanks :P

from where do you think come all those medicaments? they have to be tested!

Quote:
They other thing they could do with this guy is brainwash the crap out of him, and then send him around the country in a prison jumpsuit and irons, talking to Islamic youths about the error of his ways, how much he regrets it, and how they should tell people trying to radicalize them to fuck off. Tell him if he does a good job at this, he will be granted parole. Then when he's too old to be trusted by youths anymore (30 or so), execute him.


no, thats a bad idea. Moreover you have to think more economically, because economy needs war. all those produced weapons and ammo have to be used somewhere. the sacred economy would be pretty angry if we would achieve peace between moslems and jews/USA.

So either working for the victims or going to a medlab.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
ratmonkey wrote:
The whole killing a police officer, and hurling explosives at the authorities shtick totally convinced me that he was innocent.
And you witnessed these events, or just automatically believe what the authorities claim? I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but so far we just have authoritarianism declaring them as suspects and making claims of what they have done.


Well, I wasn't riding shotgun in the officer's car that chased them down. And even if I was, then I would have just been in on the conspiracy, right?

I was, however, up most of Thursday night and caught the story as it was unfolding. That was a hell of a lot of effort and a lot of people were involved to pull off such a stunt if it was really just a cover up. So as of right now, I'm inclined to believe them.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Old School wrote:
Call me crazy, but I feel pity for the kid. I'm glad he is still alive.

Society seems to place such a small value on life, and we are too eager to seek an eye for an eye revenge.

I think people are eager to feel compassion for this 19 year old because he's a nice-looking young guy of whom people have spoken highly. However, he did put a bomb down next to innocent women and children that killed, tore people's limbs off, and injured dozens of people, and then shot and threw grenades at numerous people. He has ruined the lives of numerous people, through a brutal, cowardly act of extreme violence.

I say we should interrogate him for about six months, then turn him over to the Russians for a similar period. Then he should be sentenced to death but granted a stay of execution to work in a prison coal mine (which we need to create), with the stay to remain in effect as long as his output remains above remains above a certain level, with all the proceeds of his labor going to his victims.


will he work in the same shift as Rumsfeld?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
bogamol wrote:
glad to finally hear about an armed and dangerous fugitive being captured rather than killed. John dorner, crazy bunker guy, al awahi were making me wonder if we cared about that anymore.
Dorner definitely seemed like the village out with pitch forks and torches. The bunker guy not as much (he had the kid, and seemed unstable). I'm not familiar with al awahi.


OBL.

PD seems like it is always shooting someone's dog.
DetroitPD a few years ago went through some scandal when they shot a guy to death when he was surrounded and swinging around a rake. Shortly after dpd started getting tazers.

That was an auto correct that I didn't notice. It was supposed to be Anwar Al Awlaki. The guy who was probably a terrorist but was an American citizen and who was drone striked in a car in Yemen.



The thing is that each of these cases taken individually, I wouldn't have given a second thought, but there seems to be a trend lately where these types of incidents result in the bad guy's death. Its not scientific or anything. Just a concern.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
We don't even do that with chimpanzees any more. Our government has sent them all to a special experimental chimpanzee retirement park.

I don't think so, even the european's do this and you know that the europeans are better and consider ethics as more important as you yanks :P

from where do you think come all those medicaments? they have to be tested!

That just goes to show your prejudices about America. What I said is true.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
Its not scientific or anything. Just a concern.
I agree that it is a concern.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
We don't even do that with chimpanzees any more. Our government has sent them all to a special experimental chimpanzee retirement park.

I don't think so, even the european's do this and you know that the europeans are better and consider ethics as more important as you yanks :P

from where do you think come all those medicaments? they have to be tested!

That just goes to show your prejudices about America. What I said is true.

I don't have prejudices about America, you should have recognized this by now!!! (if it wasn't clear,
Quote:
even the european's do this and you know that the europeans are better and consider ethics as more important as you yanks
was not a serious statement!)

can you post a link? I'm interested because I can't believe it. If it's true than it's true in the sense:
It's not allowed to produce fur coats in switzerland, so you have to buy one in Ukraine. "we are so good, that we don't produce fur coats, but there are so many people that wear one in the winter, although it's not even really cold" :)

I worked in the chemical industry, so it would be very surprising for me if the US have a law that forbids testing substances on chimpanzees. If they have one, they do it anyway or at least in other countries (maybe like guantanamo)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lotek wrote:
I'm interested because I can't believe it. If it's true than it's true in the sense:
It's not allowed to produce fur coats in switzerland, so you have to buy one in Ukraine. "we are so good, that we don't produce fur coats, but there are so many people that wear one in the winter, although it's not even really cold" :)


Call me crazy, but mink is a renewable resource and making polyester involves numerous highly polluting industrial processes. Don't tell me you are going to rant about the goodness of not killing animals while simultaneously destroying their habitats.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
Lotek wrote:
I'm interested because I can't believe it. If it's true than it's true in the sense:
It's not allowed to produce fur coats in switzerland, so you have to buy one in Ukraine. "we are so good, that we don't produce fur coats, but there are so many people that wear one in the winter, although it's not even really cold" :)


Call me crazy, but mink is a renewable resource and making polyester involves numerous highly polluting industrial processes. Don't tell me you are going to rant about the goodness of not killing animals while simultaneously destroying their habitats.


yes of course are mink a "renewable resource", I'm sure Hitler said once "we have so many jews for our working camps and they reproduce themselfs, very good resources".

Wearing a leather coat is extremly different than wearing a fur coat, because when you wear a leather coat the leather comes from a cow that was killed for food anyway, but when you wear a fur coat, then many mink were killed just for the coat.

the polyester thing is maybe "half-true", because we have the technology to produce those substances in a non polluting way, the question would be why we do not use them, or at least only partially. Moreover I think you know that there are not only polyester and mink clothes, but cotton clothes etc. I mean, regardless of the position somebody have related to animals, nobody would be stupid enough to argue that fur coates are in any possible way better than anything else!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jews =/= minks. Just thought I would point that out.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

then I just think that I have to point out that you have a lot in common with the nazis, because if you would have said "hey you are sick, you can't treat these people like shit" in 1942 then they would have said "Jews =/= arian or sinti =/= humans. Just thought I would point that out".

or you have a lot in common with the old confederation guys, because if you would have said "hey you can't hold them as slaves, just because they are black", then they would have said "niggers=/=people. Just thought I would point that out".

and so on. It's the same as in computer science, we are moving towards higher abstraction:

old europe:
people = white people, or "life that has a value" = white people
people = arian, etc

black people, jews, animals = worthless

now:
life that has a value = white, black, jewish people
worthless shit life = animals

hopefully in 2142:
life that has vaule = white, black, jewish and minks

too bad that I'm living at the current primitive abstraction level, although I would like to live in a lower abstraction level in computer science..
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
then I just think that I have to point out that you have a lot in common with the nazis, because if you would have said "hey you are sick, you can't treat these people like shit" in 1942 then they would have said "Jews =/= arian or sinti =/= humans. Just thought I would point that out".

You compared Jews with minks, I did not. So where do you get off calling me a Nazi? You really should start to proof read if you don't want people to think you are a complete troll.

*edit* your editing only enhances the idiocy of the original post.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You compared Jews with minks, I did not. So where do you get off calling me a Nazi? You really should start to proof read if you don't want people to think you are a complete troll.

even someone with your intelligence should recognize that you have the same think-patterns. you arrange lifeforms in life that has a value and life that hasn't a value. I didn't compared jews with minks, I wanted to point to the underlying thinking patterns.

Even the notions are the same, there was a time when I didn't understand why, now I know: because it just would be too hard for most to admit that they think like those they hate and dispise.

Quote:
You really should start to proof read if you don't want people to think you are a complete troll.
what should I proof?

could you please tell me the "idocy" of my post? do you even know what your ethical/moral beliefs are?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
You compared Jews with minks, I did not. So where do you get off calling me a Nazi? You really should start to proof read if you don't want people to think you are a complete troll.

even someone with your intelligence should recognize that you have the same think-patterns. you arrange lifeforms in life that has a value and life that hasn't a value. I didn't compared jews with minks, I wanted to point to the underlying thinking patterns.

Even the notions are the same, there was a time when I didn't understand why, now I know: because it just would be too hard for most to admit that they think like those they hate and dispise.

Quote:
You really should start to proof read if you don't want people to think you are a complete troll.
what should I proof?

could you please tell me the "idocy" of my post? do you even know what your ethical/moral beliefs are?

You compared the life of an mink with the lives of people. My ethics/moral beliefs are that the two are so far removed from each other that only a bleating idiot would compare the two. Even someone with my intelligence realises that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, what a surprise!! you are right, it was wrong to compare you with nazis, we need a new notion for your kind: human-socialist would be pretty accurate.

What would surprise me if you had spent some time thinking and reading about ethics, or more important about notions, constructs etc. because what you call "people" is at first a notion and you connect some attributs to that notion like "they can dream, they can feel pain, etc". than you take another notion like "minks" and then you connect them with "oh, they can't think and they can't dream".

but you know nothing about other "people" and other lifeforms. you don't even know if someone else would feel pain if you would hit him, you just believe it.

I believe it too, and I believe like you that "people" are far away from "minks", but the difference is that I know why I believe this. And more important I know that I believe this, you think you know it. Like the nazis thought they know that they are better than jews.

It's really disgusting how this "mind virus" works and it's not even just about animals. It goes in the same direction that when a bomb in boston explodes than there have to be OTW-threads, media out-cries etc, but when a bomb in bagdad or else explodes -> whatever, don't care, only arabs died.

You obviously were offendend by my "comparision", but you aren't offended when people talk about a boston bomb and not about a bagdad bomb. So, are arabs far away from people too?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
....

Nope, I am nothing "like" a Nazi. Try again.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goddam why I am not able to resist to talk about ethics! Too bad that there isn't a functional internet-currency, because otherwise I would promise to buy everyone a beer if I talk about ethics again or answer any posts that are related to ethics.

Maybe I begin to understand the prime directive: primitive cultures can't evolve if you intervene in their business, but it just feels so passive! So without the beers: I won't talk about ethics anymore! you can use this against me if I ever will do it again!!

One last thing, because I want to clarify the jew, nazi stuff (ok, I admit it, I don't want just clarify it, I also want to show that you are indeed like a nazi and that "only a bleating idiot can compare them" is something that only a person with very low intellectual and even lower moral capabilities can say)

Isaac Bashevis Singer:

Quote:
In The Letter Writer, he wrote "In relation to [animals], all people are Nazis; for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka."[29] which became a classical reference in the discussions about the legitimacy of the comparison of animal exploitation with the holocaust.


So, until 20 minutes ago I didn't know that this "comparision" is not my invention, but came actually from a jew! Now, maybe you should try to think a little bit, I know, it is hard and painful, but believe me, it pays off!!
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