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fusion809
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:34 am    Post subject: Are Sabayon users allowed to use these forums too? Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm a Sabayon user and as Sabayon is based on Gentoo and quite similar to it, I was wondering if I am allowed to ask questions about Sabayon here. I know that Sabayon has its own forums, but I have a question regarding JWM (the window manager) that they have failed to answer, that I thought someone here might be able to answer.

Thanks for your time,
Brenton
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krinn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have no official section to support a distro we don't use :D
In practice, we do, and the best section to that should be Off the wall.

But again, in practice, OTW is a really really special place, nobody should use without warning, a mental shield (or be totally insane can do it too), a letter from your parents...

So in real, we just do that from there
Ask your question there, if you don't get any answer, we don't hate you, it's just we could only answer to something we know...
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tw04l124
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know the unsupported section is okay.
The moderators several times claimed that they offer advise to other distros. I think the unsopprted area has a new headline which states for sabayon too. and there is another section in this forum for general linux questions.

--
Personally:
But it annoyed me several times when fake gentoo users posted in the wrong section. And later we realized it is calculate, funtoo shit, or sabayon. There are some ways to clearly distinguish fake gentoo posts, the long term users will realize it anyway when they dig in the topic posters issue.
Anyone who posts in unsupported section with the big letters sabayon for sabayon is welcome. Just declare clearly in the heradline and in the first line of your post that this is not gentoo and everyone will be happy.

I think gentoo has the bigger user base and therefore may have less bugs. Although i run in a lot of issues recently.
Do not expect that those little distros have as good user base or support as the bigger ones. Less users means less bugs will show up, and the box is highly prone to unstable things or issues. The only cons for gentoo is that you have to patch things yourself / put the duct tape yourself in the config files, or ebuilds sometimes. but at least you get the info in the wiki or on the forums, sometimes on bugs.gentoo.org
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Are Sabayon users allowed to use these forums too? Reply with quote

fusion809 wrote:
I'm a Sabayon user and as Sabayon is based on Gentoo and quite similar to it, I was wondering if I am allowed to ask questions about Sabayon here.

fusion809 ... it use to say on our website, before it was recently revamped, "gentoo is a community based around a distribution". Taking that as the starting point for a definition of what gentoo in fact is, then I would contest your understanding of sabayon's relation to gentoo, and how similar it is. Code is cheap, community isn't ... its simple to copy 500 or so megabytes of code and re-brand it, creating a community around that code to support it isn't. That's the difference, and fine, you're free to copy the code, but the community doesn't come with it. You see, users are a distributions most valuable asset, without them the distribution simply can't function ... its the many, many, hours of unpaid labour (in the form of user support, bug reporting, etc, etc) that has made this possible (though you won't find this fact paid much credit in the narrative being created by Redhat, freedesktop, etc). Now, yes, you're free to post here (in Unsuported Software) but part of our (and by that I mean the communities) general hesitancy is that we have all encountered (on numerous occasions) users from other "gentoo based" distributions posting here with issues that are actually not related to gentoo, and after expending effort discover that "its (saybayon|calculate|funtoo)" and we've wasted our time (because the problem is invariably their end, or impossible for us to get to the root of). The refrain "based on gentoo" is something we've heard often and it generally translates to our owing them for providing the code, or that we should understand the myriad differences involved, I've even had users who get rude, and belligerent, when they are told we don't support their distribution.

Anyhow, asking at the outset is a good sign ... so, good luck.

best ... khay
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desultory
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Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fusion809 wrote:
I'm a Sabayon user and as Sabayon is based on Gentoo and quite similar to it, I was wondering if I am allowed to ask questions about Sabayon here. I know that Sabayon has its own forums, but I have a question regarding JWM (the window manager) that they have failed to answer, that I thought someone here might be able to answer.
Questions about Sabayon are explicitly, if indirectly, welcome in Unsupported Software, so long as everyone is clear about exactly what they are using.The same does not necessarily hold true for other distributions derived from Gentoo: not all fit the technical criteria of offering their overlays through overlays.gentoo.org and some are not quite compatible with Gentoo itself in various ways; Funtoo can be a prime example of both.

krinn wrote:
We have no official section to support a distro we don't use :D
In practice, we do, and the best section to that should be Off the wall.

But again, in practice, OTW is a really really special place, nobody should use without warning, a mental shield (or be totally insane can do it too), a letter from your parents...
Support questions for distributions not derived from Gentoo tend to get relocated to Off the Wall, with certain warnings (to the regulars) in place in the move message.
krinn wrote:
So in real, we just do that from there
Ask your question there, if you don't get any answer, we don't hate you, it's just we could only answer to something we know...
This bears some emphasis, especially considering we have had users who became overtly upset, even "quit" because they did not get the help they wanted, in part due to playing guess the overlay.

tw04l124 wrote:
As far as I know the unsupported section is okay.
The moderators several times claimed that they offer advise to other distros. I think the unsopprted area has a new headline which states for sabayon too. and there is another section in this forum for general linux questions.
Indirectly, since the sabayon, and sabayon-distro overlays are available through overlays.gentoo.org, which is itself cited in the section description.

In short: Sabayon questions are welcome, and being clear about it makes it easier on everyone involved. So, thanks for actually asking before going ahead and asking what you came to ask.
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EmaRsk
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
Questions about Sabayon are explicitly, if indirectly, welcome in Unsupported Software

Then its "about" post needs to be updated, because as of now it says:
Quote:
Note also that questions about other distros, Gentoo-based or not, do not belong here.

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Please, avoid some common spelling errors:
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desultory
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EmaRsk wrote:
Then its "about" post needs to be updated, because as of now it says:
Quote:
Note also that questions about other distros, Gentoo-based or not, do not belong here.
Indeed, we should clarify that to the effect that, for example Sabayon can be essentially used as Gentoo with an overlay (which fits in Unsupported software) or as a somewhat loose derivative when using Entropy (which does not seem to fit in Unsupported Software given that it effectively uses a largely distinct software ecosystem).

Split off "To wit: "That is entirely besides the point."".
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