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Muso
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: Obama, Clinton Silent on Hostage Crisis |
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Obama, Clinton Silent on Hostage Crisis
| Quote: | At least two American hostages (and possibly several more) are being held hostage at a gas plant in Algeria, but there's been no word on unfolding the situation from either President Barack Obama or Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
In fact, the only official word to come from the Obama administration is confirmation from the State Department that indeed Americans are being held hostage there.
"[W]e condemn in strongest terms the terrorist attack on British Petroleum personnel and facilities at In Amenas, Algeria earlier today. We are obviously closely monitoring the situation. We’re in contact with Algerian authorities and our diplomatic counterparts in Algiers, as well as with BP’s security office in London," said State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland in response to a reporter's question yesterday.
"The best information that we have at this time is that U.S. citizens are among the hostages. I hope you will understand that in order to protect their safety, I’m not going to get into numbers, I’m not going to get into names, I’m not going to get into any further details as we continue to work on this issue with the Algerian authorities and also with their employers."
Nuland did say that Clinton is aware of the situation and taking action. "Let me also say that the Secretary has spoken to our Ambassador in Algiers, Ambassador Ensher today. And as I was coming down here, she was on the phone with Algerian Prime Minister Sellal," said Nuland.
Yet the White House has been silent. And President Obama has not indicated he has plans to address the public on exactly what is happening. Same for Clinton, who has yet to make a public statement on the situation. |
Real leadership 
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notageek
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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34 hostages have been killed in an air-strike. So, they're probably dead already.
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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The hostages were taken in retaliation for the new secret war Obama isn't waging in Mali.
Never fear. The SEALs or Delta Force will get them out, because they're secret organizations that nobody knows anything about, nobody knows how they operate or what kind of tactics and equipment they might use or what kind of capabilities they have, and nobody would expect them to be sent in (because the Obama Administration understands the importance of OPSEC and would never reveal that kind of information for political gain, especially if it would put lives in danger on future operations).
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | | 34 hostages have been killed in an air-strike. So, they're probably dead already. |
What?
Six hostages were killed by Algerian forces who fired on a vehicle they were being taken away in. That leaves seven or so alive. What's this about 34 hostages? I think you're confused.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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notageek
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, it's not you that's confused. A lot of conflicting reports are coming out. One report suggests that Algerian helicopters mowed down captives along with their guards as they were attempting to move them elsewhere.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-20-foreign-hostages-escape-islamist-captors-in-algeria-20130117,0,7004240.story
I'm waiting for the Obama Adminstration to say "We have no reason to believe this is an act of terrorism or in any way related to our policy or activities in the region. It was just a spontaneous uprising."
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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erm67
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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More likely this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/16/us-mali-rebels-pentagon-idUSBRE90F1IK20130116
| Quote: | | U.S. studying legal basis for assisting France in Mali: Panetta |
There is already a UN mandate to operate there, it should not a problem. (and this hostage crisis is only going to ease the intervention...)
The snafu might have been algerian but the terrorists were from mali.
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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The U.S. is already participating jointly with the French in the operations in Mali, although our involvement has been limited to that which Obama knows he can get away with without asking permission, and without creating a politically damaging "Blackhawk Down" scenario: we are providing command, control, communications, intelligence, targeting, etc., (and are probably also flying drone strike missions and probably have advisors with the local troops).
The terrorists who conducted this raid already openly stated they did it in retaliation for the operation in Mali. That's a given, whether we acknowledge it or not (or try to blame it on a youtube video or something).
The bullshit about "U.S. studying legal basis" is code for "We actually have the balls to pretend we're not already involved and secretly (keeping it a secret from Obama supporters) conducting a widespread Global War on Terror -- that's how stupid we think you all are," and, "Obama is waffling and can't decide what to do, and has no grasp of the idea that time is of the essence and military decisions must sometimes be made without hesitation or lives are lost".
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erm67
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: |
The bullshit about "U.S. studying legal basis" is code for "We actually have the balls to pretend we're not already involved and secretly (keeping it a secret from Obama supporters) conducting a widespread Global War on Terror -- that's how stupid we think you all are," and, "Obama is waffling and can't decide what to do, and has no grasp of the idea that time is of the essence and military decisions must sometimes be made without hesitation or lives are lost". |
To be really paranoid one could think Obama might even be happy that some US citizens have been killed so even his supporters are going to accept more military expenses ....
The Italian ministry of defense said a few minutes ago on TV that the Italian parliament is going to vote in the next days for a not better specified 'support of sizeable entity' to the French.
PS. too bad our french connection doesn't keep us timely informed, I receive france 24 but they talk too fast for me ....
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Never fear. The SEALs or Delta Force will get them out, because they're secret organizations that nobody knows anything about, nobody knows how they operate or what kind of tactics and equipment they might use or what kind of capabilities they have, and nobody would expect them to be sent in (because the Obama Administration understands the importance of OPSEC and would never reveal that kind of information for political gain, especially if it would put lives in danger on future operations). |
Ah yes, good ole security through obscurity. Thankfully real world special operations units know that other governments parallel develop similar units with similar skills and gear, and instead rely on superior selection and tactical training, operational stealth, and shock 'n awe to overwhelm (usually vastly) inferior units. And much of the capabilities of the SEALs/Delta/SAS has been public domain knowledge for decades, long before Obama was in highschool, much less PotUS. But lets blame Obama anyway, because that's sane and rational, and everything from the fall of rain to the post office worker short changing you by 1c is all his fault.
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| aidanjt wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | Never fear. The SEALs or Delta Force will get them out, because they're secret organizations that nobody knows anything about, nobody knows how they operate or what kind of tactics and equipment they might use or what kind of capabilities they have, and nobody would expect them to be sent in (because the Obama Administration understands the importance of OPSEC and would never reveal that kind of information for political gain, especially if it would put lives in danger on future operations). |
Ah yes, good ole security through obscurity. Thankfully real world special operations units know that other governments parallel develop similar units with similar skills and gear, and instead rely on superior selection and tactical training, operational stealth, and shock 'n awe to overwhelm (usually vastly) inferior units. And much of the capabilities of the SEALs/Delta/SAS has been public domain knowledge for decades, long before Obama was in highschool, much less PotUS. But lets blame Obama anyway, because that's sane and rational, and everything from the fall of rain to the post office worker short changing you by 1c is all his fault. |
It's not the "much" of their capabilities that people know that matters; it's the much that's secret and/or unknown by the targets. For example, when did you learn they are using an effectively silent and radar-invisible 3rd generation stealth-modified BlackHawk the very existence of which was Top Secret? You learned it when, and because, the Obama White House blabbered it, as they were falling over themselves trying to take credit.
There's a difference between the things that a few experts are aware of and what is broadly common knowledge. For example, when did you learn how many people were sent in, how many aircraft, what types, and electronic warfare capabilities were employed? You learned it when, and because, the Obama White House blabbered it, as they were compulsively waving their dick and balls in front of the news media, trying to look deeply involved.
Now, every moron on the planet, not just a few special operations wonks and former military personnel, know all about these guys, what they do, and how they do it. Nearly two dozen of the same class of special operations personnel were killed a couple weeks later, when their helicopter was shot down on a similar mission. Now their jobs are even more dangerous and their options even more limited, and they're more likely to lose their lives doing them, all because Obama is a selfish, unethical, stuffed shirt with no values.
Now, the 1er RPIMa or SAS, or SEALs, or whoever is sent in there, is going to face more risk and possibly suffer more casualties than they would have, if he could have kept his self-promoting, propaganda-spewing, wanna-be Hugo Chavez mouth shut.
Also, the fact that you could blurt out "security through obscurity" in a mocking reference to this demonstrates that you have little grasp of what military OPSEC is or how it works. That's really a pretty uninformed remark. Surprise is one of the basic principles of tactical success, not something you presume to be too difficult to achieve.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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Muso
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Obama's spending his time on Youtube trying to find a new video to blame for this act of terrorism.
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erm67
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | For example, when did you learn they are using an effectively silent and radar-invisible 3rd generation stealth-modified BlackHawk the very existence of which was Top Secret? You learned it when, and because, the Obama White House blabbered it, as they were falling over themselves trying to take credit. |
Wasn't it when the paki sold to the chinese the one that crashed in front of Usama house?
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erm67
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | Obama's spending his time on Youtube trying to find a new video to blame for this act of terrorism. |
hehe according to french press one of the terrorists killed was a french citizen, blame france ...
Latest news say 7-11 foreigners (1 french ((not the terrorist))) were killed
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | For example, when did you learn they are using an effectively silent and radar-invisible 3rd generation stealth-modified BlackHawk the very existence of which was Top Secret? You learned it when, and because, the Obama White House blabbered it, as they were falling over themselves trying to take credit. |
Wasn't it when the paki sold to the chinese the one that crashed in front of Usama house? |
No. The Pakistanis and the Chinese both kept that information secret. We can only speculate that they did indeed have usable bits of it left, and that they sold them to the Chinese, and the only reason you and I know about it is because the White House blabbed about it. Moreover, Pakistani and Chinese intelligence having awareness of such capabilities (and keeping it secret) is entirely different than a thousand semi-literate Achmeds in Sudan, Yemen, and the Maghreb becoming aware of it because it has become common knowledge and featured information in three movies sponsored by the White House Presidential Popularity Poll Department.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | Obama's spending his time on Youtube trying to find a new video to blame for this act of terrorism. |
hehe according to french press one of the terrorists killed was a french citizen, blame france ...
Latest news say 7-11 foreigners (1 french ((not the terrorist))) were killed |
The French need to spend more time worrying about the hundreds of thousands of sympathizers right inside their own borders.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | | Latest news say 7-11 foreigners (1 french ((not the terrorist))) were killed |
lol, before I realized what you had written, I saw "7-11 foreigners" and thought you were referring to our convenience store chain named 7-11 (stereotypically run by Indians / e.g., Apu on the Simpsons).
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | Latest news say 7-11 foreigners (1 french ((not the terrorist))) were killed |
lol, before I realized what you had written, I saw "7-11 foreigners" and thought you were referring to our convenience store chain named 7-11 (stereotypically run by Indians / e.g., Apu on the Simpsons). |
Joe Biden says, "You cannot go in 7-11 or Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent; I'm not joking."
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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erm67
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | Obama's spending his time on Youtube trying to find a new video to blame for this act of terrorism. |
hehe according to french press one of the terrorists killed was a french citizen, blame france ...
Latest news say 7-11 foreigners (1 french ((not the terrorist))) were killed |
The French need to spend more time worrying about the hundreds of thousands of sympathizers right inside their own borders. |
BTW we haven't seen elyes for some time now, and the [ROP] tag is missing ...
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | | BTW we haven't seen elyes for some time now, and the [ROP] tag is missing ... |
Once he gets through Phase II of terrorist training camp in Pakistan, he'll have Internet privileges. 
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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notageek
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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For clearing all confusions and countering internet trolls, read BBC. Always.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21085590
Algeria siege: 'Around 30' hostages unaccounted for
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | | For clearing all confusions and countering internet trolls, read BBC. Always. |
Yeah. You're the one who posted some fifth-hand report that 34 hostages had been killed in an "air strike". 
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
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notageek
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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... which this report substantiates.
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erm67
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/afrique/en-direct-algerie-suivez-les-dernieres-infos-sur-la-prise-d-otages_1210983.html
| Quote: | EN DIRECT. Algérie: 12 otages auraient été tués depuis le début de l'opération
Par LEXPRESS.fr, publié le 18/01/2013 à 07h27, mis à jour à 20h03
Les ravisseurs islamistes détiendraient encore sept otages vivants: trois Belges, deux Américains, un Japonais et un Britannique. Le bilan humain officiel, qui n'est toujours pas connu, risque d'être très lourd après le raid des forces armées d'Alger. Les dernières infos.
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12 hostages killed, the other killed were terrorists (or hostages without families  )
7 hostages alive still in the hands of salafist
A french newspaper claims some double agents in Algerian Secret services works also for the terrorists...
and:
| Quote: | 17h14 :
Le président Barack Obama est "régulièrement mis au courant par son équipe de sécurité nationale" des développements en Algérie, indique la Maison Blanche. |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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The Obama Administration supports such democratic movements, such as in Egypt, for example.
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