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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:20 pm Post subject: Eurozone Unemployment Reaches All-Time High |
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Quote: | The unemployment rate across the eurozone hit a new all-time high of 11.8% in November, official figures have shown.
This is a slight rise on 11.7% for the 17-nation region in October. The rate for the European Union as a whole in November was unchanged at 10.7%.
Spain, which is mired in deep recession, again recorded the highest unemployment rate, coming in at 26.6%.
More than 26 million people are now unemployed across the EU.
For the eurozone, the number of people without work reached 18.8 million said Eurostat, the official European statistics agency said.
Greece had the second-highest unemployment rate in November, at 20%.
The youth unemployment rate was 24.4% in the eurozone, and 23.7% in the wider European Union. Youth unemployment - among people under 25 - was highest in Greece (57.6%), followed by Spain (56.5%). |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20943292 _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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Muso l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Posts: 686 Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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More welfare now! That will fix the problem. _________________ People Of Love
Kindness Evokes Kindness
Peace Emits Positive Energy |
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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Argentina's a good example too. They get "free" healthcare, everybody is taken care of, etc. The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. Lately, every year around Christmas, the people take to the streets and blockade supermarkets, entirely preventing business from being conducted, demanding that everybody be given free food for those two months. (I may not have the details straight on this, but something like that is going on.) _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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John-Boy Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 439 Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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BoneKracker wrote: | The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. |
I know they're after the Falklands. Again. _________________ Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
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John-Boy Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 439 Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know what it is what Labour/left leaning in general - the answer always seems
to be spend, don't matter if you haven't got the money, spend anyway.
I remember Gordon Brown, one of his last interviews as PM, the gist of the whole session
was 'don't cut spending. Yet' - this is the UK with our debit. Nutty. _________________ Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
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erm67 Apprentice


Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 204 Location: somewhere in Renziland.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Muso wrote: | More welfare now! That will fix the problem. |
We got a better solution, we did put a charging bull in front of the Amsterdam stock exchange ....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-05/di-modica-s-bull-statue-placed-in-front-of-amsterdam-exchange.html
BTW analysts are expecting 2013 to be a year of economic boom again ...
And at a late December meeting it was agreed that hidden subsides to public companies aka KfW in Germany are legitimate under the EU framework and do not increase (official) public debt figures. So we can also expect a 'stimulus' package in various EU countries. _________________ True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
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Dr.Willy Guru

Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 435 Location: NRW, Germany
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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BoneKracker wrote: | Argentina's a good example too. They get "free" healthcare, everybody is taken care of, etc. The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. Lately, every year around Christmas, the people take to the streets and blockade supermarkets, entirely preventing business from being conducted, demanding that everybody be given free food for those two months. (I may not have the details straight on this, but something like that is going on.) |
What makes this a 'good example'? The fact that it supports your point? Because thats all I see so far.
John-Boy wrote: | I don't know what it is what Labour/left leaning in general - the answer always seems
to be spend, don't matter if you haven't got the money, spend anyway. |
…and the conservative answer generally is …? |
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John-Boy Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 439 Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | …and the conservative answer generally is …? |
Tighten belt. Put sane policies in re:encouraging growth - at least don't tax the bejesus
out of wealth generators. _________________ Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
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disi Veteran


Joined: 28 Nov 2003 Posts: 1354 Location: Out There ...
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Eurozone Unemployment Reaches All-Time High |
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BoneKracker wrote: | Quote: | The unemployment rate across the eurozone hit a new all-time high of 11.8% in November, official figures have shown.
This is a slight rise on 11.7% for the 17-nation region in October. The rate for the European Union as a whole in November was unchanged at 10.7%.
Spain, which is mired in deep recession, again recorded the highest unemployment rate, coming in at 26.6%.
More than 26 million people are now unemployed across the EU.
For the eurozone, the number of people without work reached 18.8 million said Eurostat, the official European statistics agency said.
Greece had the second-highest unemployment rate in November, at 20%.
The youth unemployment rate was 24.4% in the eurozone, and 23.7% in the wider European Union. Youth unemployment - among people under 25 - was highest in Greece (57.6%), followed by Spain (56.5%). |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20943292 |
Whole Euro-Zone show wrong figures, many people work in other countries and support their families at home. Also people travel a lot between countries. I know of a tramp, once met in a train, he goes south every winter for begging...
I don't know the solution but slums and a strong police force cannot be the answer?  _________________ Gentoo on Uptime Project - Larry is a cow |
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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | BoneKracker wrote: | Argentina's a good example too. They get "free" healthcare, everybody is taken care of, etc. The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. Lately, every year around Christmas, the people take to the streets and blockade supermarkets, entirely preventing business from being conducted, demanding that everybody be given free food for those two months. (I may not have the details straight on this, but something like that is going on.) |
What makes this a 'good example'? The fact that it supports your point? |
Precisely. That's what "example" means, in case you were unclear on that.  _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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John-Boy wrote: | Dr.Willy wrote: | …and the conservative answer generally is …? |
Tighten belt. Put sane policies in re:encouraging growth - at least don't tax the bejesus
out of wealth generators. |
Ruthlessly root out waste in government and the public sector, and unrelentingly press for increased efficiency. You know, stuff that privately-held firms do as a matter of routine but non profit-seeking entities would rather not bother with because it's unpleasant, the money's "free" anyway, and frankly, who gives a damn?
Our government probably wastes 25 - 30% of its funding, based on my personal observations as a consultant. They could probably reap half of that, if they tried. But it's like body fat: you have to keep at it. Every time you stop trying, you get fat again. Every time Democrats get control of anything, waste is the last thing they're worried about, because they use spending as a measure of success rather than understanding they equate to taxes and debt, and don't see it as the giant, sea-lion-sized cartoid-artery-sucking leech they are on the neck of the economy.
Some spending is necessary. Waste is not beneficial, and neither is fraud or corruption. _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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Dr.Willy Guru

Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 435 Location: NRW, Germany
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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BoneKracker wrote: | Precisely. That's what "example" means, in case you were unclear on that.  |
Well it might be a crappy one, but I can agree that it is, in fact, an example.
BoneKracker wrote: | Ruthlessly root out waste in government and the public sector, and unrelentingly press for increased efficiency. You know, stuff that privately-held firms do as a matter of routine but non profit-seeking entities would rather not bother with because it's unpleasant, the money's "free" anyway, and frankly, who gives a damn?
Our government probably wastes 25 - 30% of its funding, based on my personal observations as a consultant. They could probably reap half of that, if they tried. But it's like body fat: you have to keep at it. Every time you stop trying, you get fat again. Every time Democrats get control of anything, waste is the last thing they're worried about, because they use spending as a measure of success rather than understanding they equate to taxes and debt, and don't see it as the giant, sea-lion-sized cartoid-artery-sucking leech they are on the neck of the economy.
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Ahh yes, the epic struggle of the righteous against the wicked.
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world. |
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Darth Marley Tux's lil' helper

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 107
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: |
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world. |
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 17135
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | Ahh yes, the epic struggle of the righteous against the wicked.
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world. | You're welcome to it, I'd just like to get rid of the mess it is causing here. _________________ The mob moves like demons possessed. Quiet in conscience, calm in their right. Confident their ways are best. -- Rush, Witch Hunt |
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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | BoneKracker wrote: | Precisely. That's what "example" means, in case you were unclear on that.  |
Well it might be a crappy one, but I can agree that it is, in fact, an example.
BoneKracker wrote: | Ruthlessly root out waste in government and the public sector, and unrelentingly press for increased efficiency. You know, stuff that privately-held firms do as a matter of routine but non profit-seeking entities would rather not bother with because it's unpleasant, the money's "free" anyway, and frankly, who gives a damn?
Our government probably wastes 25 - 30% of its funding, based on my personal observations as a consultant. They could probably reap half of that, if they tried. But it's like body fat: you have to keep at it. Every time you stop trying, you get fat again. Every time Democrats get control of anything, waste is the last thing they're worried about, because they use spending as a measure of success rather than understanding they equate to taxes and debt, and don't see it as the giant, sea-lion-sized cartoid-artery-sucking leech they are on the neck of the economy.
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Ahh yes, the epic struggle of the righteous against the wicked.
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world. |
That's a strawman. You have repeatedly heard me say that a mixture of socialism and capitalism are necessary, along with an overriding effort to prevent either from systematically eroding and violating the rights of individuals.
There is such a thing as "too socialist", however, and the public education systems of Europe have spend the last half-century telling Europe's children otherwise -- that socialism is some kind of Garden of Eden, rather than an economic philosophy from which some necessary evils can be tolerated (despite the fact that they reduce overall economic prosperity and lead to systematic violation of individual rights) in order to establish a temporary safety net for the unfortunate and an acceptable minimum standard of living for the incapable. _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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Dr.Willy Guru

Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 435 Location: NRW, Germany
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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BoneKracker wrote: | That's a strawman. |
I'm happy to see that you at least put some thought into other peoples' posts.
BoneKracker wrote: | There is such a thing as "too socialist", however, and the public education systems of Europe have spend the last half-century telling Europe's children otherwise -- that socialism is some kind of Garden of Eden, rather than an economic philosophy from which some necessary evils can be tolerated (despite the fact that they reduce overall economic prosperity and lead to systematic violation of individual rights) in order to establish a temporary safety net for the unfortunate and an acceptable minimum standard of living for the incapable. |
Well lets see.
There is such a thing as "too socialist". You will find that there is a "too much" version of any political ideology.
Now Europe is "too socialist". Based on what observations? Relative to which fix-point?
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
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Old School Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 240 Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
Congratulations! You just stumbled into a truism. _________________ The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
George Orwell
It just keeps getting better |
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juniper l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 763 Location: EU
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Old School wrote: | Dr.Willy wrote: | European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
Congratulations! You just stumbled into a truism. |
two european economies are doing pretty well
country 1
deficit/surplus: -2%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 6%
country 2
deficit/surplus: +0.1%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 7.5%
who are these rocksters? denmark and sweden. |
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Old School Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 240 Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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juniper wrote: | Old School wrote: | Dr.Willy wrote: | European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
Congratulations! You just stumbled into a truism. |
two european economies are doing pretty well
country 1
deficit/surplus: -2%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 6%
country 2
deficit/surplus: +0.1%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 7.5%
who are these rocksters? denmark and sweden. |
With a homogeneous population less than a major US city. _________________ The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
George Orwell
It just keeps getting better |
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Dr.Willy Guru

Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 435 Location: NRW, Germany
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Breaking: Old School supporting socialism in all major US cities. |
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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | BoneKracker wrote: | That's a strawman. |
I'm happy to see that you at least put some thought into other peoples' posts. |
I did, as obviously demonstrated in the rest of that paragraph, which you redacted from your quote (you know, the part where I explained why it was a strawman).
Dr.Willy wrote: | BoneKracker wrote: | There is such a thing as "too socialist", however, and the public education systems of Europe have spend the last half-century telling Europe's children otherwise -- that socialism is some kind of Garden of Eden, rather than an economic philosophy from which some necessary evils can be tolerated (despite the fact that they reduce overall economic prosperity and lead to systematic violation of individual rights) in order to establish a temporary safety net for the unfortunate and an acceptable minimum standard of living for the incapable. |
Well lets see.
There is such a thing as "too socialist". You will find that there is a "too much" version of any political ideology.
Now Europe is "too socialist". Based on what observations? Relative to which fix-point? |
All explained above. Did you just stop reading and knee-jerk when you got to the words "too socialist"?
Dr.Willy wrote: | European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
Here's the equivalent of your logic: rats stink, and rats are rodents; the moldy cheese in my refrigerator stinks too, therefore rodents live in my refrigerator! _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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aidanjt Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:31 am Post subject: |
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BoneKracker wrote: | Dr.Willy wrote: | European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
Here's the equivalent of your logic: rats stink, and rats are rodents; the moldy cheese in my refrigerator stinks too, therefore rodents live in my refrigerator! |
More like 1=1. There's little difference worth talking about between the US and the EU, in both economic properties and circumstance. _________________
juniper wrote: | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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aidanjt Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
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erm67 wrote: | BTW analysts are expecting 2013 to be a year of economic boom again ... |
Followed by a 2 year bust, making this 'boom', if there will actually be one at all, which seems unlikely, a futile surge. _________________
juniper wrote: | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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Muso l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Posts: 686 Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:34 am Post subject: |
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erm67 wrote: | Muso wrote: | More welfare now! That will fix the problem. |
We got a better solution, we did put a charging bull in front of the Amsterdam stock exchange ....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-05/di-modica-s-bull-statue-placed-in-front-of-amsterdam-exchange.html
BTW analysts are expecting 2013 to be a year of economic boom again ...
And at a late December meeting it was agreed that hidden subsides to public companies aka KfW in Germany are legitimate under the EU framework and do not increase (official) public debt figures. So we can also expect a 'stimulus' package in various EU countries. |
Clearly there is not enough wealth redistribution, punitive taxation, or economic magic.
Get your overlords to steal more, and reward the pointless. _________________ People Of Love
Kindness Evokes Kindness
Peace Emits Positive Energy |
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Bones McCracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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aidanjt wrote: | BoneKracker wrote: | Dr.Willy wrote: | European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere? |
Here's the equivalent of your logic: rats stink, and rats are rodents; the moldy cheese in my refrigerator stinks too, therefore rodents live in my refrigerator! |
More like 1=1. There's little difference worth talking about between the US and the EU, in both economic properties and circumstance. |
If so, then why are Europeans always criticizing the U.S. and acting like they are superior? _________________
patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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