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Right-to-Work Legislation in Michigan
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Right-to-Work Legislation in Michigan Reply with quote

All right, a traditionally blue state is about to have a Right-to-Work provision signed into law.

What the fuck happened?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They've become pro-choice. Choice is good, right?
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o'bogamol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to the Wisconsin Scott Walker fiasco, unions in Michigan tried to push through a constitutional ammendment to guarantee collective bargaining righta to public employees. couple this with previous legislation the bars public sector unions from taking dues directly out of paychecks...they must be payed voluntarily. There has been a lot of polarity on the issue of the big autp bailouts and the fallout is that there is a growing sentiment against unions in general in Michigan. The ammendment failed and abti union types have had some momentum.

Michigan is a red state if you discount the densely populated SE corner. So state politics looks a lot more bipartisan than what we put forward in the national arena.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unions have yet to figure out that it is no longer 1932.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet, Obama was reelected. I don't get it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republican controlled state legislatures and Republican governor.

A perfect storm.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot like what gave us Obamacare.
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o'bogamol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Republican controlled state legislatures and Republican governor.

A perfect storm.


A perfect storm.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
And yet, Obama was reelected. I don't get it.

I don't understand that, either. Both Michigan and Wisconsin voted for Obama.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
pjp wrote:
And yet, Obama was reelected. I don't get it.

I don't understand that, either. Both Michigan and Wisconsin voted for Obama.


Areas of Philadelphia gave Obama 100% of the vote. Outside of Saddam's Iraq, I'm not sure if this has ever happened.
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o'bogamol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short Answer:

The simplest way to explain it is When the nation needs a scapegoat for the failing economy they blame the president. When Michigan needs a scapegoat for a failing economy, we blame the unions.

There has been a lot of anti-union grumbling over the last 10 years. Unions threw their hat into games they couldn't win when they:
A) tried to get a constitutional amendment passed to guarantee the collective bargaining rights of public employees
B) as well as a constitutional amendment that required all independent home health care workers to join a union/registry.

Because they lost these fights, there is blood in the water and the forces of Union busting are on the move.



If you're willing to go a little deeper, here's a more detailed explanation, as I see it.


Michigan, discounting Detroit and the surrounding region is generally more Republican than Democrat. Our state senate has been majority Republican for all of my voting memory. Over the last 50 years, we've had 36 years of Republican governors.

There are very livable cities with moderate sized populations which consistently vote majority Republican: Grand Rapids area, Traverse City area, Kalamazoo area, etc. and the entire Upper Peninsula.

The reason why we get the reputation as being a blue state is because the SE corner, that is everything surrounding and between Detroit and Flint, is our big population center and that leans left. Thus, we consistently send Democrat Senators and vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. However, when you look at elections where specific regions select a candidate, we get a pretty bipartisan split. We sent 8/15 Republicans to the House last time. The correllary is that our state politics don't really resemble what people assume about us based on our presidential voting record.

(Sometimes I wish our politics were more extreme in one direction or the other because I envy Chopinzee and the others who get to vote for the candidate they actually like regardless of the odds. I have to drive around with the political bumper-sticker of the less smelly crap sandwich on my truck.)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
pjp wrote:
And yet, Obama was reelected. I don't get it.

I don't understand that, either. Both Michigan and Wisconsin voted for Obama.


Areas of Philadelphia gave Obama 100% of the vote. Outside of Saddam's Iraq, I'm not sure if this has ever happened.

100% of Iraqis voted for Obama when Saddam was still in power? :P
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
Muso wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
pjp wrote:
And yet, Obama was reelected. I don't get it.

I don't understand that, either. Both Michigan and Wisconsin voted for Obama.


Areas of Philadelphia gave Obama 100% of the vote. Outside of Saddam's Iraq, I'm not sure if this has ever happened.

100% of Iraqis voted for Obama when Saddam was still in power? :P
No. Saddam was dead.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unions got greedy. Their power is derived from their membership. They tried to force people into membership... if you were in a certain job class, they were going to force you to be in the union and pay dues. Now, if you don't want to be in the union, you don't have to do so.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL USA
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Areas of Philadelphia gave Obama 100% of the vote. Outside of Saddam's Iraq, I'm not sure if this has ever happened.
Plausibly explainable by being a staunchly Democrat area. Unlikely, but plausible. Supposedly some areas were >100% (don't know if that was PA or elsewhere).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
LOL USA


LOL AFL-CIO
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

American English: Never mean what they say.

Why is an anti-union bill called "Right To Work?"
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o'bogamol
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
American English: Never mean what they say.

Why is an anti-union bill called "Right To Work?"


You can not be barred from employment simply for not joining a union. You have the 'right to work' whether you join a union or not.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh okay.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
notageek wrote:
American English: Never mean what they say.

Why is an anti-union bill called "Right To Work?"


You can not be barred from employment simply for not joining a union. You have the 'right to work' whether you join a union or not.

here's a fun history fact: unions originally did this because they were racist fucks and wanted to exclude all minorities.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I want to know about a union. I don't belong to any unions myself. Living in Texas I'm not sure there really IS a union to belong to for what I do. But I've got this question.

I pay these guys dues, they are supposed to help with collective barganing. But if I lose my job for whatever reason do they actually help get me work somewhere else or just expect me to still be part of their union and such while not actually providing me the individual with the help I need to get back on the job?
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o'bogamol
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/12/11/rick-snyder-right-to-work_n_2280050.html

Its official. Even HuffPo has to admit it. Michigan has passed Right to Work.

@LD

The union would do a lot to help you reinstate your job but if you do get fired 'for good' then you also cut ties with the union. Without a job in a unionized workforce you were not required to stay in the union. I think you could if you wanyed to. I quit a job becauae of the union once so obviously I didnt peraue whether I could remain a member. I think moat of the unions offer relevant continuing education and other services to help keep workers up to apeed in their induatry. There is a seniority component to unions which is transferable among jobs so long as the place you work is organized by the same union yiu were with.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/12/11/rick-snyder-right-to-work_n_2280050.html

Its official. Even HuffPo has to admit it. Michigan has passed Right to Work.

@LD

The union would do a lot to help you reinstate your job but if you do get fired 'for good' then you also cut ties with the union. Without a job in a unionized workforce you were not required to stay in the union. I think you could if you wanyed to. I quit a job becauae of the union once so obviously I didnt peraue whether I could remain a member. I think moat of the unions offer relevant continuing education and other services to help keep workers up to apeed in their induatry. There is a seniority component to unions which is transferable among jobs so long as the place you work is organized by the same union yiu were with.


I see, so they just help as long as I have employement in an organized shop. That kind of sucks actually.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not so sure this is a good thing. From HuffPo, "Right-to-work laws forbid contracts between companies and unions that require all workers to pay the union for bargaining on their behalf." Do we really want the state forbidding voluntary contracts? As a business owner, why shouldn't I be able to make such an agreement if I wish? From a freedom-of-contract point of view, this bill seems problematic to me.
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