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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note: IRC questions. It is highly likely I WILL see your question in chat, but please be patient. If I don't answer right away, I'm AFK. Or eating. Or possibly, sleeping. I do that, sometimes. 8)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: DE/WM suggestions, missing website files for manual install Reply with quote

audiodef wrote:
I know people have mentioned other WMs and DEs they're interested in seeing packaged into a Gentoo Studio tarball. I'm going to try to find those references, but in the meantime, other than Xfce4, what would you prefer as a default Gentoo Studio WM/DE?


This RAM comparison is old, but how about JWM, i3, and Openbox in that order of priority?

Unrelated, but I added a bug report to Mantis - manual install says we need http://gentoostudio.org/keywordfiles/ which is 404.


Last edited by 0joshuaolson1 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: audiodef Reply with quote

Thanks! I think the manual install is going away once I get the stage 4 restored, though.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until then, the manual install isn't ready either.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Proaudio is noaudio Reply with quote

The proaudio overlay has seriously been letting me down lately. Just now, the SRC_URI for jack-audio-connection-kit-1.9.10 failed.

Nevermind the python ebuild errors. Not even a valid SRC_URI for JACK, which is fundamental to Gentoo Studio... we're done.

So one of the official goals of Gentoo Studio is to create an overlay for professional audio applications. And by that I mean I hope to eventually get it hosted and listed as an official overlay, surpassing if not replacing the proaudio overlay as the go-to for serious audio work on Gentoo, whether or not the user installed a Gentoo Studio tarball. (Actually, that's not really my goal, but rather a nice side benefit. I'm planning on doing the same work either way, so why not let everyone benefit?)

I'm just one guy with a lot on his plate, so this is going to take time. (After all, I have to get the stage 4 tarball back up, and I only have one day a week reserved for anything Gentoo Studio-related.) So if anyone wants to help with anything, that would be FREAKING AWESOME.

If interested, let me know and I will figure out what I can parcel out. Probably most of this would initially be fixing ebuilds from the proaudio overlay for inclusion in a Gentoo Studio overlay.

Note: Probably start by going through the proaudio overlay, cp'ing things to my Gentoo Studio local overlay in my development VM, fixing things up, and outright discarding other things.

Anothernote: I'm not competing - please don't take it that way. I just want stuff to work and I'm willing to work to get it working. :-)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't help, but what you're doing is seriously needed in the Linux world. Jack, maybe not so much. It's pretty limited when it comes to wanting professional audio quality.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can try to help where possible depending on what kind of work is needed. Let me know. I want audio on gentoo to keep moving forward :)
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, guys, that's terrific!

For the moment, it would be super-helpful to go through the packages in the proaudio overlay and fix the python errors that litter your screen when you run updates. I can work on putting together a list of packages in need of repair, but until I get that done, anything helps. Your favorite package, something you think should be maintained, etc. If you do anything along those lines and get working ebuilds from broken ones, post them to bugs.gentoostudio.org. (Watch out for typoing bugs.gentoo.org, which happened to me a few times when I first set up Mantis.) There's already an "Ebuilds" category you can use. Don't worry too much about setting any other fields. And please let me know who I should give credit to.

Those errors are along the lines of "Called inherit 'eutils' 'python'" followed by "eclass could not be found by inherit()." Talk about a bomb coming down the pipe!
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, I might have been hasty... but not by a whole lot.

It seems that the JACK maintainer actually moved or removed the SRC_URI. I'm going to go track this down.

EDIT:

Fixed, will be in stage 4 tarball. Portage's jack2 has all the correct info, but no support for ieee1394, which is still in use and should still be supported, so GS's ebuild will be a modified version of the proaudio ebuild, with ieee1394 support. The JACK maintainer stopped using dropbox, which caused the proaudio version to fail.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Proaudio is noaudio Reply with quote

audiodef wrote:
The proaudio overlay has seriously been letting me down lately. Just now, the SRC_URI for jack-audio-connection-kit-1.9.10 failed.

Nevermind the python ebuild errors. Not even a valid SRC_URI for JACK, which is fundamental to Gentoo Studio... we're done.

So one of the official goals of Gentoo Studio is to create an overlay for professional audio applications. And by that I mean I hope to eventually get it hosted and listed as an official overlay, surpassing if not replacing the proaudio overlay as the go-to for serious audio work on Gentoo, whether or not the user installed a Gentoo Studio tarball. (Actually, that's not really my goal, but rather a nice side benefit. I'm planning on doing the same work either way, so why not let everyone benefit?)

Why not just do that in proaudio?
They clearly could do with the help, and that way everyone benefits with less work on your part.
Quote:
I'm just one guy with a lot on his plate, so this is going to take time. (After all, I have to get the stage 4 tarball back up, and I only have one day a week reserved for anything Gentoo Studio-related.) So if anyone wants to help with anything, that would be FREAKING AWESOME.

If interested, let me know and I will figure out what I can parcel out. Probably most of this would initially be fixing ebuilds from the proaudio overlay for inclusion in a Gentoo Studio overlay.

Note: Probably start by going through the proaudio overlay, cp'ing things to my Gentoo Studio local overlay in my development VM, fixing things up, and outright discarding other things.
All of which sounds a lot like "cleaning up the proaudio overlay".
I can understand wanting only specific ebuilds in, so better quality of the set overall. Just seems that would be better done at pro-audio level, because users don't want crap there either.
Quote:
Anothernote: I'm not competing - please don't take it that way. I just want stuff to work and I'm willing to work to get it working. :-)
Which again begs the question, so why not work with proaudio, and do much less work yourself, overall?
A leaner, cleaner proaudio overlay would be in everyone's interest.

I suppose starting afresh can't hurt, but then we should be clear that "the go-to [overlay] for serious audio work on Gentoo" is exactly the spec of proaudio, and we are trying to reboot it.
Still not sure that's wise, mind; you then have to reinvent all the setup, like mailing-lists, when it's already in place, and people already collaborate there.

The housekeeping and administration side usually takes more effort than people think, is incredibly boring for most of us, and also absolutely essential.
Personally I wouldn't bother to reinvent it all; you are perfectly placed to be a big fish in proaudio, as it is. (You can write ebuilds.. ;-)
IMO they'd be mighty glad of the effort (provided it's done politely, which you are.)
In exchange you don't have to worry about stuff like keeping mailing-lists running, and friendly.

*shrug* Never underestimate the power of knowing for sure, that it is Somebody Else's Problem.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today: working on moving the stage 4 first test along. Need to update some things for GCC5, including the Ardour/Mixbus demos. Updating to latest rt-sources and installing a few more packages. Hopefully I can at least create a stage 4 tarball, and then next week I can devote to testing for the best install procedure. (Long-term, I'd like to create an install DVD, but that won't happen for the next stage 4 release.)

EDIT:

Updated rt-sources, fixed the JACK ebuild (it wasn't building jackd in addition to jackdbus), got some other things cleaned up. Am ready to build a release tarball, but now I'm looking into better options than making a stage4. That's my task for next week/next time. (I set aside one full day a week for this, but if that day comes up as a migraine day, FML...)

EDIT EDIT:

I think for now creating a stage 4 keeps things lined up with the Gentoo install MO in general. With that in mind, I'm trying out this script: https://github.com/TheChymera/mkstage4

EDIT^3

The mkstage4 script hit 3.7G before I killed it. I never had it that large before and I don't think it should be any larger than 2G. Maybe I'll take a look at catalyst.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Proaudio is noaudio Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
audiodef wrote:
The proaudio overlay has seriously been letting me down lately. Just now, the SRC_URI for jack-audio-connection-kit-1.9.10 failed.

Nevermind the python ebuild errors. Not even a valid SRC_URI for JACK, which is fundamental to Gentoo Studio... we're done.

So one of the official goals of Gentoo Studio is to create an overlay for professional audio applications. And by that I mean I hope to eventually get it hosted and listed as an official overlay, surpassing if not replacing the proaudio overlay as the go-to for serious audio work on Gentoo, whether or not the user installed a Gentoo Studio tarball. (Actually, that's not really my goal, but rather a nice side benefit. I'm planning on doing the same work either way, so why not let everyone benefit?)

Why not just do that in proaudio?
They clearly could do with the help, and that way everyone benefits with less work on your part.


I fully agree. When I see a problem with the proaudio overlay, I try to fix it, and when I can, I commit it on the overlay. But I don't have much time at all, which imply I don't commit often and I don't have time for one more project.

Btw, if it is peoples out there willing to contribute to the proaudio overlay, I can give them commit access, just send me a private message.

About the wm/desktop issue, as fvwm-crystal main developer, I made a lot of test and the resource usage of a desktop will depend not only of the desktop in use, but also of the theme/recipe in use. With fvwm-crystal, the Amiga recipe is the most complicated one and the one that make the biggest usage of resources, at least 2 times more than the less resource hungry recipes like Clean or Silent Hacker. The consequence of it is than most desktop today are using a big button with everything in it (yes from the wm pov, 1 button is simpler than 2, even if from the user pov 1 button can be messy).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Proaudio is noaudio Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
Why not just do that in proaudio?
They clearly could do with the help, and that way everyone benefits with less work on your part.

...
I can understand wanting only specific ebuilds in, so better quality of the set overall. Just seems that would be better done at pro-audio level, because users don't want crap there either.
Which again begs the question, so why not work with proaudio, and do much less work yourself, overall?
A leaner, cleaner proaudio overlay would be in everyone's interest.

I suppose starting afresh can't hurt, but then we should be clear that "the go-to [overlay] for serious audio work on Gentoo" is exactly the spec of proaudio, and we are trying to reboot it.
Still not sure that's wise, mind; you then have to reinvent all the setup, like mailing-lists, when it's already in place, and people already collaborate there.

The housekeeping and administration side usually takes more effort than people think, is incredibly boring for most of us, and also absolutely essential.
Personally I wouldn't bother to reinvent it all; you are perfectly placed to be a big fish in proaudio, as it is. (You can write ebuilds.. ;-)
IMO they'd be mighty glad of the effort (provided it's done politely, which you are.)
In exchange you don't have to worry about stuff like keeping mailing-lists running, and friendly.

*shrug* Never underestimate the power of knowing for sure, that it is Somebody Else's Problem.


@steveL I'd be interested in fixing up the proaudio overlay. I'd like to start with getting rid of unused/old stuff and things that simply don't work. Then slowly start adding fixing the useful ebuilds and adding them back in.
How can one join the team? (Is there even an existing team?)


Last edited by simonvanderveldt on Fri May 05, 2017 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: Proaudio is noaudio Reply with quote

simonvanderveldt wrote:
@steveL I'd be interested in fixing up the proaudio overlay. I'd like to start with getting rid of unused/old stuff and things that simply don't work. Then slowly start adding fixing the useful ebuilds and adding them back in.
How can one join the team? (Is there even an existing team?)
See Michel Dominique's message, just above yours.
Your plan sounds sane; just send him a pm.
I'd get on the mailing-list as well, if you're not already, as you'll need to be responsive to review and bug reports.
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Proaudio is noaudio Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
I fully agree. When I see a problem with the proaudio overlay, I try to fix it, and when I can, I commit it on the overlay. But I don't have much time at all, which imply I don't commit often and I don't have time for one more project.

Btw, if it is peoples out there willing to contribute to the proaudio overlay, I can give them commit access, just send me a private message.

In hopes of this triggering a notification:
@Dominique_71 I've sent a message to the proaudio mailing list 1.5 weeks ago and sent you a PM as well. There's a small group that wants to fix the proaudio stuff by removing the cruft/starting cleanly, moving to git, and keeping a group of active maintainers. But since we're not hearing anything from the current maintainers the only thing we can do so far is start our own overlay. I would very much prefer to work together on this though :)
Hope this message reaches you.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're not hearing anything from the maintainers, and others are serious about a new overlay, I would like to work together on that, if at all possible. I would rather have one overlay for audio officially used by Gentoo Studio than to have one out there for Gentoo Studio and another one in parallel doing similar stuff. I don't care if it's run by me or someone else as long as I can at least have commit access.

I know it's a lot of work, and since I'm already the sole maintainer of Gentoo Studio and since I'm doing this kind of fixing anyway, I'd be happy to serve as the maintainer.

But let's see if we hear back from proaudio. It makes more sense to not duplicate efforts if there's any chance we can all participate in the good stuff already there. :)
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

audiodef wrote:
If we're not hearing anything from the maintainers, and others are serious about a new overlay, I would like to work together on that, if at all possible. I would rather have one overlay for audio officially used by Gentoo Studio than to have one out there for Gentoo Studio and another one in parallel doing similar stuff. I don't care if it's run by me or someone else as long as I can at least have commit access.

I know it's a lot of work, and since I'm already the sole maintainer of Gentoo Studio and since I'm doing this kind of fixing anyway, I'd be happy to serve as the maintainer.

But let's see if we hear back from proaudio. It makes more sense to not duplicate efforts if there's any chance we can all participate in the good stuff already there. :)

There's currently a small group on #proaudio-overlay on freenode that's working on a new overlay, if you're interested in this feel free to join the discussion there (or on the proaudio mailing list if you're on it)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what happened now to the "old/current" proaudio overlay? I noticed that it has been removed from the layman list.
Has it been removed because it is abandoned?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t3k0 wrote:
So what happened now to the "old/current" proaudio overlay? I noticed that it has been removed from the layman list.
Has it been removed because it is abandoned?


@t3k0 that's correct. It's been removed because it had too many (quality) issues which weren't getting fixed.
See https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607596

We (currently 5 people, see https://github.com/orgs/gentoo-audio/people) decided to start a new overlay and add/pull in only packages that we use and can maintain. So far it's still pretty empty, so don't expect it to be a replacement for the proaudio overlay at this point in time, but we're working hard at adding more stuff. Though we do want to guarantee quality to prevent the issues the proaudio overlay had.
This is our current list of things to do https://github.com/gentoo-audio/audio-overlay/issues
It's not in layman yet, but will be once we create the PR to add it to the list, I'd expect that we do so next week once we have a couple of useful packages.

If you (or anyone else) want to help out and add/maintain a package that would be great. Feel free to either let us know here or join #proaudio-overlay on freenode.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear simonvanderveldt,

thanks for the detailed answer. I'm afraid I'm not skilled enough to write/maintain descent ebuilds and don't have the time to learn at the moment.

However, I went through my system to clean up and check which ebuilds, which are not in the main portage tree, are crucial for serious audio production on gentoo.
I'll add a small list of ebuilds to your issues on github, which I think are worth to rescue from the old proaudio overlay.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t3k0 wrote:
Dear simonvanderveldt,

thanks for the detailed answer. I'm afraid I'm not skilled enough to write/maintain descent ebuilds and don't have the time to learn at the moment.

No problem :)

Quote:
However, I went through my system to clean up and check which ebuilds, which are not in the main portage tree, are crucial for serious audio production on gentoo.
I'll add a small list of ebuilds to your issues on github, which I think are worth to rescue from the old proaudio overlay.

Sounds good!
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Planning on splitting Gentoo Studio into these install tarballs:

GENTOO STUDIO MINIMAL

Base Gentoo install, basic audio control programs installed, but no DE/WM and no actual audio programs. User installs choice of programs and DE/WM. "X" use flag has been incorporated and xorg-server installed.

Target: People who want a source-based audio distro already tweaked for real-time audio, but want complete controll over what software gets installed from the beginning.

Packages:
a2jmidid
Cadence
Eix
Jack Capture
Jack2
Nano
Qjackctl
Repoman
rt-sources
smart-live-rebuild

GENTOO STUDIO BASIC

Gentoo Studio Minimal + basic array of audio programs and plugins. User installs choice of DE/WM and possibly extra software and plugins.

By default, Gentoo Studio Basic allows you to:
Record single or multitrack audio
Record and write MIDI tracks
Generate drum tracks
Write scores, including guitar tabulature
Connect to streaming servers to stream audio
Playback audio and video

Target: People who want to choose their own DE/WM, audio plugins, softsynths, etc., but otherwise want a source-based audio distro ready to go with some of the main programs used in Linux audio installed.

Packages:
Ardour
Audacity
Qtractor
Rosegarden

ToDo:
Chordii
Hydrogen
IDJC
Jamin
LMMS
MuseScore
Seq24
SMPlayer
VLC

GENTOO STUDIO COMPLETE

Gentoo Studio Basic + Xfce4 and other audio programs, plugins and softsynths.

Target: People who just want to install with minimal fuss and get to work.

Packages:
Drumgizmo
EQ10Q
FluidSynth
Japa

You can obtain support by posting to the Multimedia/Gentoo Studio: Professional Audio Gentoo Workstation sticky on FGO.

NOT SUPPORTED by any flavor of Gentoo Studio:
Pulseaudio
Any issues stemming from Gnome or KDE
32-bit installs
Running a streaming server

Don't let the "unsupported" list stop you. You can do any of the above - you will simply need to post to other sections of FGO to seek support.

This post will be updated as the package lists grow.


Last edited by audiodef on Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:32 pm; edited 5 times in total
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0joshuaolson1
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Any DE/WM? Reply with quote

Can any DE/WM be configured for soft realtime, or are you talking about choosing from options your guide would support?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Any DE/WM? Reply with quote

0joshuaolson1,

For Minimal and Basic, the user can select any DE or WM they want. It is not affected by hard or soft realtime. /etc/security/limits.conf handles that with:
Code:

*      hard   rtprio      0
*      soft   rtprio      0
@realtime   hard   rtprio      20
@realtime      soft   rtprio      10

@audio      -   rtprio      99
@audio      -   memlock      unlimited

which will already be configured in the release tarball.

As a matter of fact, users can also install Complete, blow away Xfce4 and replace it with a DE or WM of their choice. Like Gentoo, Gentoo Studio aims to be about individual choice.

0joshuaolson1 wrote:
Can any DE/WM be configured for soft realtime, or are you talking about choosing from options your guide would support?
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done: Set up VM for Gentoo Studio Minimal.

Next: Clone VM and install packages for Gentoo Studio Basic.
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