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ppurka
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: ? -> hal -> devicekit -> udev + *kit -> systemd Reply with quote

So, we had something (?) before hal. Then we have hal. That gave way to devicekit and some other kits. That gets replaced by udev + consolekit + policykit + some other shitty kit.

And now systemd is going to replace consolekit. So, what next? How many more years of "better" shitty unstable stuff?
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Preaching to the choir. I've been ranting about the perpetual 'fixing' of working things for years.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today when I booted up, I noticed that udev was looking for /run, and gave a warning that it wasn't there.
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sts
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C'mon, we're talking about linux. This type of thing has happened forever. Open soruce software that is in heavy use evolves over time. That means people try different things, some get consolidated, phased out, etc. If you just want dumb simple scripts then use NetBSD.
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sts
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Today when I booted up, I noticed that udev was looking for /run, and gave a warning that it wasn't there.

Haha. Resistance is futile. Gentoo doesn't even need /run.
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sts
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google Docs wrote:
There are currently too many people viewing this document. Please try again later.


Google Docs fail. :roll:
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sts wrote:
C'mon, we're talking about linux. This type of thing has happened forever. Open soruce software that is in heavy use evolves over time. That means people try different things, some get consolidated, phased out, etc. If you just want dumb simple scripts then use NetBSD.

Evolution is gradual. This is more like man coming along and wiping out all the predator population and raising livestock, then standing around wondering why there's a massive rodent infestation. :P
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sts wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Today when I booted up, I noticed that udev was looking for /run, and gave a warning that it wasn't there.

Haha. Resistance is futile. Gentoo doesn't even need /run.

It flashed past and it's not in dmesg or my kernel log, but I think it said something like '/run is not a writable location, defaulting to humma humma humma...."

So, I imagine it now tries to put the crap that's squirreled away in /dev/.udev in a /run directory.
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ppurka
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sts wrote:
C'mon, we're talking about linux. This type of thing has happened forever. Open soruce software that is in heavy use evolves over time. That means people try different things, some get consolidated, phased out, etc. If you just want dumb simple scripts then use NetBSD.
C'mon we are talking about linux. It is supposed to be stable. And configurable. With good manuals. And not some obscure configuration options.

Dumb simple scripts seem simpler and more manageable than this mess we have now.
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ppurka
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
sts wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Today when I booted up, I noticed that udev was looking for /run, and gave a warning that it wasn't there.

Haha. Resistance is futile. Gentoo doesn't even need /run.

It flashed past and it's not in dmesg or my kernel log, but I think it said something like '/run is not a writable location, defaulting to humma humma humma...."

So, I imagine it now tries to put the crap that's squirreled away in /dev/.udev in a /run directory.
Which humma humma? This one? :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Today when I booted up, I noticed that udev was looking for /run, and gave a warning that it wasn't there.

I added /run, made it a mode=1777 tmpfs like /tmp in fstab, and still get this bullshit warning. As for ConsoleKit, the direction things are headed is exactly why I ripped PAM out of my system years ago.
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sts
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually liked ConsoleKit. Made user permissions stuff (mounting, network) automagically work right.

Not sure how this differed from user groups, though.

EDIT: According to wikipedia it reduces the number of processes needed to be run as root and allows finer grained control.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
sts wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Today when I booted up, I noticed that udev was looking for /run, and gave a warning that it wasn't there.

Haha. Resistance is futile. Gentoo doesn't even need /run.

It flashed past and it's not in dmesg or my kernel log, but I think it said something like '/run is not a writable location, defaulting to humma humma humma...."

So, I imagine it now tries to put the crap that's squirreled away in /dev/.udev in a /run directory.
Which humma humma? This one? :lol:

No, but I'd take that one. :lol:
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sts wrote:
I actually liked ConsoleKit. Made user permissions stuff (mounting, network) automagically work right.

Except it never worked for me, even after jumping through all the hoops I was stuck with 10-20 useless packages that forbade me from shutting down from a menu. The `sudo xfce4-shutdown-helper` technique worked fine in xfce before 4.6 fucked the simplicity of it up.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it pretty useless.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're fixing the Linux desktop AGAIN? Shit.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know how to fix Linux. Roll back every software repo to 2005.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
I know how to fix Linux. Roll back every software repo to 2005.

Actually, that might be good. We'd get KDE3 back, GNOME would have features, and Amarok 1 would still be around.


Last edited by wswartzendruber on Wed May 04, 2011 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sts
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's still a lot of broken crap with the Linux desktop to fix, so hold on to your butts. Systemd will eventually subsume cron and at, too.

Last edited by sts on Wed May 04, 2011 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
I know how to fix Linux. Roll back every software repo to 2005.

Back to 2.4. :)
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sts wrote:
There's still a lot of broken crap with the Linux desktop to fix, so hold on to your butts. Systemd will eventually subsume cron and at, too.

And be all fucked up. Then we'll be screwed.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, what do you know, it's a FreeDesktop.org project!
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sts
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
sts wrote:
There's still a lot of broken crap with the Linux desktop to fix, so hold on to your butts. Systemd will eventually subsume cron and at, too.

And be all fucked up. Then we'll be screwed.

Were you whining when they replaced the static /dev with udev?
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sts wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
sts wrote:
There's still a lot of broken crap with the Linux desktop to fix, so hold on to your butts. Systemd will eventually subsume cron and at, too.

And be all fucked up. Then we'll be screwed.

Were you whining when they replaced the static /dev with udev?

Yeah, because a dynamic /dev was supposed to become part of the kernel. And guess what? Now it is? But are we using it? No. Why? Because we just got done putting so much effort into adapting to udev. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This shit is one of the reasons I don't use Gentoo anymore. I use OpenSUSE so none of this is MY problem. It takes about an hour to install the OS and everything "Just Works"(TM).
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