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dantrell
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:47 am    Post subject: GNOME Without Systemd Reply with quote

For those not familiar with the matter, the state of GNOME is such that:
  • systemd is not a hard compile time dependency
  • systemd is a hard run time dependency for basic functionality
Basic functionality is what the GNOME team has decided includes:
  • power management
  • session tracking
  • lid close handling
  • log/event viewing
  • Wayland (in GNOME, not in general)
This means that right now without applying any patches you can run GNOME (yes, even 3.16) in 2 official conditions:
  • GNOME with systemd and with basic functionality (which is supported out of the box in Gentoo)
  • GNOME without systemd and without basic functionality
Support for the latter condition in Gentoo involves:
  • globally disabling the systemd USE flag
  • disabling the kms USE flag on mutter
  • unmasking and enabling the openrc-force USE flag
But what if you want to use GNOME without systemd and with basic functionality?

Simple, you utilize my patchset which I have officially assisted Funtoo Linux in implementing since GNOME 3.12. It reintegrates support for everything but Wayland. Until recently, practically the only way for Gentoo Linux users to enjoy a similar experience was to utilize Sakaki's funtoo-2-gentoo shim overlay. This is no longer the case as I have decided to extend support to Gentoo Linux directly through the GNOME Without Systemd project. Those seeking background information (such as the description of the project, my rationale for creating it, the length of long-term support, the frequency of updates and so forth) can begin with the Introduction while those wanting to jump right in can skip ahead to Getting Started. If you have any trouble, feel free to contact me directly.

In short, my patchset aside, anyone telling you that choosing GNOME means choosing systemd is wrong. Granted, one day, GNOME may really and truly depend on systemd, but that day is not today. So in the meantime, for Gentoo and Funtoo Linux users who still desire in a choice in how they run GNOME, they have one.
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tw04l124
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can I see the contents of: eselect profile set dantrell-gnome:default/amd64/3.16

I think I prefer setting those useflags myself as to rely on a preset which I may not need int he first place ...


and how much memory does gnome needs these days?
htop memory usagae after startup on amd64, ty

Does failback gnome still works or is this deprecated? I am only interested in that failback gnome thing..
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: GNOME Without Systemd Reply with quote

dantrell wrote:
Basic functionality is what the GNOME team has decided includes:
  • power management
  • session tracking
  • lid close handling
  • log/event viewing
  • Wayland (in GNOME, not in general)
..
..my patchset ..reintegrates support for everything but Wayland. Until recently, practically the only way for Gentoo Linux users to enjoy a similar experience was to utilize Sakaki's funtoo-2-gentoo shim overlay. This is no longer the case as I have decided to extend support to Gentoo Linux directly through the GNOME Without Systemd project.

In short, my patchset aside, anyone telling you that choosing GNOME means choosing systemd is wrong. Granted, one day, GNOME may really and truly depend on systemd, but that day is not today. So in the meantime, for Gentoo and Funtoo Linux users who still desire in a choice in how they run GNOME, they have one.

Great job! :-)
tw04l124 wrote:
I think I prefer setting those useflags myself as to rely on a preset which I may not need in the first place...

It's the same as setting your profile to desktop/anything-else; you can still override globally or on a per-package basis.
The defaults just tend to be well-tested by the upstream ebuild or overlay maintainer, as well as other users.
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keitho2000
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a difference between your overlay and the funtoo overlay? this forum post it says funtoo comes with this overlay, but on your github guide there are steps to add it to funtoo. I'm currently using funtoo, and gnome is in the repository and available without systemd, but version 3.16 isn't available. If it's the same overlay, is there a reason for 3.16 not being available?
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dantrell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tw04l124 wrote:
How can I see the contents of: eselect profile set dantrell-gnome:default/amd64/3.16

I think I prefer setting those useflags myself as to rely on a preset which I may not need int he first place ...


and how much memory does gnome needs these days?
htop memory usagae after startup on amd64, ty

Does failback gnome still works or is this deprecated? I am only interested in that failback gnome thing..

The contents are in the generic GNOME repository.

Regarding memory usage, reference "Memory consumption of Linux desktop environments".

As for Fallback Mode, it was dropped in GNOME 3.8. What they have now is GNOME Classic.

steveL wrote:
[...]
Great job! :-)

Thanks. :)

keitho2000 wrote:
Is there a difference between your overlay and the funtoo overlay? this forum post it says funtoo comes with this overlay, but on your github guide there are steps to add it to funtoo. I'm currently using funtoo, and gnome is in the repository and available without systemd, but version 3.16 isn't available. If it's the same overlay, is there a reason for 3.16 not being available?

Yes, there is a difference between my overlay and Funtoo's overlay. My overlay:
  • is compatible with both Gentoo and Funtoo linux
  • always has the latest version of my patchset
  • easily supports switching between GNOME release versions
Furthermore, Funtoo's GNOME overlay is not directly derived from mine. They have an earlier version of my patchset which was manually integrated and which they are independently maintaining. If you check FL-2485 on their bug tracker, I already gave them the information they need to implement GNOME 3.16 however they wish. Perhaps they are still reviewing things?
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tw04l124
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[edit] removed as i think it was offtopic ...

I realized measuring memory usage is a bit tricky.

thank link uses systemd, and other services which are not really essential and drives up memory consumption

And i prefer the memory value x-screensaver + nvidia-binary-gpu blob after entered password to the log in manager ..
I also saw top and htop have different memory footprints which should be considered too.

that stuff looks like in the good old gnome 2 days ...


Last edited by tw04l124 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dantrell,

Nice work. Thank you.
It may be a while before I can test it.
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Sakaki
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, I can confirm that the 3.14 version of GNOME from this overlay (haven't tried 3.16 yet) builds and runs successfully on a 'stock' amd64 install.

I've put together a short page on the Gentoo wiki here covering the steps involved, for those interested. Please feel free to edit.

Also, I'd like to thank Dantrell B. for his great work making this available to the Gentoo community (and for effectively letting me off the maintenance hook for the funtoo-2-gentoo shim ^-^)

It'd be great if dantrell's overlays could make it into the official Gentoo repos one day!

Edit: now tested 3.16 from the overlay also (on ~amd64); builds and runs successfully.
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cheuk3
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi, I have install the 3-16 version but when i run emerge --depclean after emerge --newuse --changed-use --deep --update @world, it will unemerge all gnome apps? how can i prevent this? thanks!
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Sakaki
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, did you set the "dantrell-gnome:default/amd64/3.16" profile, prior to updating @world? Also, is this a fresh installation, or do you already have GNOME installed on your machine?

(And, minor point, but since --newuse is a superset of --changed-use, you don't need both together)
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cheuk3
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi, I have reinstall the system again, this time only the following package will be unmerge with --depclean, is it safe to unmerge those package? Thanks

All selected packages: =media-fonts/liberation-fonts-2.00.1-r1 =x11-apps/mkfontscale-1.1.2 =x11-libs/xpyb-1.3.1-r3 =x11-apps/mkfontdir-1.0.7 =media-fonts/encodings-1.0.4 =x11-libs/libXaw-1.0.13 =dev-lang/nasm-2.11.08 =x11-libs/libXpm-3.5.11 =net-nds/openldap-2.4.40-r4
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Sakaki
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, so on the VirtualBox VM I use for testing dantrell's overlays, after a 3.16 install (based on a vanilla handbook ~amd64 system, per these instructions), emerge --depclean wants to remove (inter alia) dev-lang/nasm-2.11.08 and media-fonts/liberation-fonts-2.00.1-r1.

The other packages that you mention (mkfontscale etc) are not installed (on my system) to begin with. If I then go through with the emerge --depclean and reboot, the system comes up fine into GNOME 3.16.

So yes, I think you should be fine to unmerge the list of packages cited.
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cheuk3
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, i got another problem with nautilus, when i use the new dropdown menu to change the view (icon or list). the nautilus freeze and ended...
I have tried to recomplie it but still same happen. do you have this problem? Thanks!
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Sakaki
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, just tried this: nautilus freezes when the view toggle dropdown is used for me also, on 3.16.
This occurred on my VM build both before and after the depclean (I have snapshots either side), so that's not the issue.
The view can be switched OK on nautilus on GNOME 3.14, no freeze.
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cheuk3
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm...I can switch the view with shortcut
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dantrell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheuk3 wrote:
Hi, i got another problem with nautilus, when i use the new dropdown menu to change the view (icon or list). the nautilus freeze and ended...
I have tried to recomplie it but still same happen. do you have this problem? Thanks!

Sakaki wrote:
Yes, just tried this: nautilus freezes when the view toggle dropdown is used for me also, on 3.16.
This occurred on my VM build both before and after the depclean (I have snapshots either side), so that's not the issue.
The view can be switched OK on nautilus on GNOME 3.14, no freeze.

Sakaki, thanks for verifying the issue. However, since it isn't related to my patchset, it should really be reported elsewhere. Although my guess is that it already has been and may even be resolved with Nautilus commit 394fde4 (which hasn't been backported to 3.16 yet).

Still, I will be happy resolve this issue on my end if it isn't handled in a reasonable amount of time.
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