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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:50 am    Post subject: POLL: A General Discussion forum Reply with quote

No lazy clicking to vote, post your vote and or comments.

Off the Wall (becomes limited to divisive topics)
Politics, Religion, Gladiators, Turkish Prisons and other topics which may induce strong opinions.

General Discussion (No OTW topics and topics not appropriate for any other support or discussion forum)
STANDARD FORUM RULES FOR BEHAVIOR APPLY
Behavior common in Off The Wall which would result in a ban elsewhere WILL NOT be tolerated in General Discussion.
Any non-Gentoo technical or non-technical topics, including but not limited to books, blenders, cooking, movies, etc.

Examples:
The Bible is a book about religion, so Off The Wall takes precedent. Similarly for books about politics.

Religious discussions on vi vs. emacs could be in General Discussion, but may be locked or moved to OTW as necessary.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You better include a rule where anything with "systemd", "init daemon" or "Lennart Poettering" has to go in OTW.

Aside from that, sure. However, I might rename OTW to "The Bear Pit"
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm against, but my vote doesn't really count since I haven't been a regular for ... several years.

I would expect any General Discussion subforum to be administered a eulogy on day 1. Besides, remember when we had discussions like this? Those were fun.

I don't know if those still take place.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
You better include a rule where anything with "systemd", "init daemon" or "Lennart Poettering" has to go in OTW.

Aside from that, sure. However, I might rename OTW to "The Bear Pit"
Such topics would be covered under "divisive." OTW wouldn't become less lenient, so I wouldn't want to change the name to anything which might suggest anarchy, but renaming isn't a priority.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doubleagent wrote:
I'm against, but my vote doesn't really count since I haven't been a regular for ... several years.

I would expect any General Discussion subforum to be administered a eulogy on day 1. Besides, remember when we had discussions like this? Those were fun.

I don't know if those still take place.
All votes count. Part of the purpose of the poll is to gauge "buy in" from users.

Why a eulogy? Any misbehavior would result in being banned.

As for your referenced discussion, I'm not specifically familiar with that one. At a cursory glance of a few posts, it appears suitable for General Discussion (the posts I read didn't seem to result in name calling, etc.) In fact, General Discussion would exist to encourage those types of discussions.

Users agreeing with creation of the forum are easy. So comments like yours are more useful in coming to an eventual decision.


Thanks for the input!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's almost what gentoo chat is, or maybe is supposed to be?

What's the driver for this? Does OTW take too much man power to moderate?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against, too confusing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think bracket tags are fine. I do like renaming otw to "the bear pit," though.

[ROP] [nsfw] [GoGOP] [GoLib] [GoAyn] etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes sense actually just pitched the wrong way :)

Think about the entire forum. It exists for Gentoo with OTW being the arsehole.
All threads could reside in OTW but not all threads could reside outside of OTW.

Portage & Programming is almost the only agnostic subforum: post there with a generic bash question you are likely to get a reply
Moderators and users are then is a pickly... if a non-gentoo thread is created where to put it? if it gets dumped into OTW the end product would be unpleasant...

The Politics of systemd Part 2
AMD Zen/Ryzen thread
Shall we free-rc?
uptime

These four exist (and countless others) in Gentoo chat but are not gentoo related. Right now they are ... tolerated in G-C because the alternative is OTW. Where do you put non-gentoo chat but chat you don't want abused ... say technical related chat
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm against, merely because I am always against complicating any structure. Unless there is clear advantage to be achieved, I do not see it here.

What about closing Gentoo on AMD64, I think it was created when 64-bit was a novelty?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:roll: :roll: :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind change, yet this seems to over complicate matters, or maybe I am not fully understanding the proposed concept.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like a forum where I am able to speak freely and not take in account some minors will fare bad for me writing my mind.
OTW should be promoted like that, not forked.

Lets say you fork to more forums, people will have to read/write in multiple threads..I cannot see a positive here. I say no. Promote/put an exclamation mark on this forum? Lets say : 'OTW 30+' ? :)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topics are not controversial until people start disagreeing. Also, where do you draw the line? Bad idea. No.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I think we do a pretty good job of self policing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with you? Can you stop taking my ideas from 5 years ago an implementing them please :evil:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a split could be a good idea, but there are enough doubts in my mind that I'm not sure in the end.

As others have mentioned, there'll be overlap between this and Gentoo Chat and Portage and Programming. Threads tend to meander and I can easily see a thread "belonging" to more than one of these divisions.

I also think it probably won't see much traffic.

Witness OTW here: Easily half the threads are about politics and many of the rest about pop-culture. Pjp's merging has helped the situation quite a bit. But even so, pollyticks and culture are the threads that get the most activity. From time to time I've tried to start discussion going on other topics. Most of those die out relatively quickly. It just seems that most people like talking about politics and pop culture, and so OTW will continue to get the majority of traffic. Splitting out the other stuff would make it easier to read just that without it getting lost in the noise, but on the other hand there'll probably be fewer stopping by to look at it. In particular, we'll probably lose the occasional pearl of wisdom coming from someone who has a hot political point to make and in the meantime ends up commenting on some side topic because it was there.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp get a hobby, it's like 20 ppl in OTW left. Everybody normal left years ago.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The proposal, as written, sounds reasonable.

I think making OTW a subforum of the new thing would help too. At least in theory.
Business as usual, but without broadcasting on the front page to everyone passing by "psst, hey kid... wanna see the biggest board on f.g.o?"


I want to toss out an option C: use the new board as an excuse to try out phpbb3. If it doesn't work, it'll be easier to discard.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a long time, many begged for Politics and Religion to have their own forum. That was after the decision had been made to eliminate the previous General Discussion forum. So I'm finding it somewhat amusing that few now seem to want such a forum :mrgreen:

OTW has become almost entirely Politics & Religion, leaving virtually no room for anything else. If a non-Gentoo topic gets moved to OTW, people familiar with the destination become very disappointed in the move.

My topic merging was an attempt to nudge people toward at least isolating the controversial topics so it might be possible to have that content coexist with content suitable for General Audiences. That has helped some, but OTW is also a Scarlett Letter of sorts.

Then there's the issue of my opinion on what should be merged vs. what users think shouldn't have been merged.

So, yeah. Trying to maintain civility in OTW, keep people from being banned, and having other content as well takes a bit too much effort.

Since the current consensus seems to be no, then there would be little point in creating the separate forum.

Thanks for the feedback!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akkara wrote:
Splitting out the other stuff would make it easier to read just that without it getting lost in the noise, but on the other hand there'll probably be fewer stopping by to look at it.
That was probably my main motivation, perhaps with a longer term outlook of more people gaining interest in the General Discussion forum. Merging topics has helped, but not as much as I hoped it would.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're just saying that because you voted for Hillary and now you're triggered.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
TI want to toss out an option C: use the new board as an excuse to try out phpbb3. If it doesn't work, it'll be easier to discard.
Personally I'd prefer to see phpbb dumped. But my alternative would be a mailing list with a (optional) web front end :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akkara wrote:
From time to time I've tried to start discussion going on other topics. Most of those die out relatively quickly.


Easy way around that, just mention Obama or Trump having an opinion on your discussion.

Instant five pager that
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a bad idea. pjp. While veterans of this board understand the nature of OTW, it must be a shock for the more delicate. So, having general discussions not related to Gentoo which are not as raucous as the OTW specific topics you outlined, seems like a good idea.

I'm in favor.
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