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juniper
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: Wanted: good guy with gun. |
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(or bad guy without one)
3 dead in Arizona
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Police did not know what kind of gun was used. The suspect is described as a white male in his 60s. Police are not sure if the shooter is still inside the building. The building has been evacuated and the area around the premises has been sealed. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sad. It will be even more sad when the ignorant masses further knee-jerk away our civil liberties.
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big dave
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:33 am Post subject: |
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not statistically relevant.
very few media outlets write about the hero who saved the convenience store because he was packing and the bad guy got caught.
it's further well documented that many of these incidents go unreported, because the good guys don't want some jerkoff media crew or cops breathing down their neck because, although they saved lives, they have no idea whether they violated the law by technicality. |
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Prenj
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Authoritarian talibans cannot find a hobby. |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Guns don't save people; people save people. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | Guns don't save people; people save people. |
++
Often with guns.
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The whole system has to go. The modern criminal justice system is incompatible with Neuroscience. --Sapolsky |
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sikpuppy
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | | Guns don't save people; people save people. |
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Often with guns. |
More often without? |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Often with guns. |
Sorry. If guns don't kill people they don't save people either. You don't need them. |
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | Often with guns. |
Sorry. If guns don't kill people they don't save people either. You don't need them. |
Zing! |
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juniper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| big dave wrote: | not statistically relevant.
very few media outlets write about the hero who saved the convenience store because he was packing and the bad guy got caught.
it's further well documented that many of these incidents go unreported, because the good guys don't want some jerkoff media crew or cops breathing down their neck because, although they saved lives, they have no idea whether they violated the law by technicality. |
My point is that the good guy is nowhere to be found, like in most of the 10,000 or so homicides.
I have an idea. Why not just station a guard EVERYWHERE!?! Adults are important too. Why should only little snots getting an education get guards? |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Prenj wrote: | | Authoritarian talibans cannot find a hobby. |
Zing!
Also, juniper, thank you for demonstrating your intellectual dishonesty yet again, by focusing for the umpteenth time on anecdotal evidence, in blind faith that this does not merely amplify the fact that you have no case.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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juniper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Prenj wrote: | | Authoritarian talibans cannot find a hobby. |
Zing!
Also, juniper, thank you for demonstrating your intellectual dishonesty yet again, by focusing for the umpteenth time on anecdotal evidence, in blind faith that this does not merely amplify the fact that you have no case. |
oh. I fully admit one incident doesn't mean anything (except, perhaps the primary school thing as it was so tragic).
I was just joining in on the games, posting stories where a good guy DIDN'T help (as people seem to be interested in the opposite).
this is not proof of anything of course. It just highlights that you can't just have "good guys" protecting everything.
Last edited by juniper on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:56 am Post subject: |
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You choose to see it within an authoritarian framework, because that's who you are: when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean cops; they mean people being able to protect themselves and their property, which is their right. So your joke about, "Sure! Let's just put guards everywhere!" misses the point and only reveals your own authoritarian collectivist programming.
To be fair, however, I'll acknowledge this: anybody who parrots that crap about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", needs to understand that background checks are very consistent with this thinking, as are measures to ensure people maintain control of their firearms (that they do not flow into the black market) as are measures that would restrict personal sales and gifts of firearms to individuals not restricted from having them.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
Last edited by Bones McCracker on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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juniper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | You choose to see it within an authoritarian framework, because that's who you are: when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean cops; they mean people being able to protect themselves and their property, which is their right. So your joke about, "Sure! Let's just put guards everywhere!" misses the point and only reveals your own authoritarian collectivist programming.
To be fair, however, I'll acknowledge this: anybody who parrots that crap about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", needs to understand that background checks are very consistent with this thinking, as are measures to ensure people maintain control of their firearms (that they do not flow into the black market). |
i never said the good guy needs to be a cop. |
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notageek
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Wrong. You need a guy with a good gun.
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | You choose to see it within an authoritarian framework, because that's who you are: when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean cops; they mean people being able to protect themselves and their property, which is their right. So your joke about, "Sure! Let's just put guards everywhere!" misses the point and only reveals your own authoritarian collectivist programming.
To be fair, however, I'll acknowledge this: anybody who parrots that crap about "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", needs to understand that background checks are very consistent with this thinking, as are measures to ensure people maintain control of their firearms (that they do not flow into the black market). |
i never said the good guy needs to be a cop. |
Correction: "when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean armed minions of das kollective; they mean individuals not being prevented from protecting themselves and their property, which is their right."
If you take away that right, then it falls upon the state to provide far, far more expansive defense of everyone's rights and property. This becomes a convenient excuse for the establishment of a police state which, rather than keeping people safe, has the primary purpose of keeping people in line (forcing them to obey the state, no matter how onerous its mandates are) and maintaining the state's monopoly on the use of force, rending the people forever helpless and incapable of resistance.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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disi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: |
Correction: "when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean armed minions of das kollective; they mean individuals not being prevented from protecting themselves and their property, which is their right."
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You need to be very careful!
If the thief or whatever tries to leave your property it is not allowed to shoot him in the back, AFAIK. Even in the USA it is not tolerated to murder people who steal stuff?
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juniper
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| disi wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: |
Correction: "when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean armed minions of das kollective; they mean individuals not being prevented from protecting themselves and their property, which is their right."
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You need to be very careful!
If the thief or whatever tries to leave your property it is not allowed to shoot him in the back, AFAIK. Even in the USA it is not tolerated to murder people who steal stuff? |
you are joking right? Of course it is! |
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disi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | disi wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: |
Correction: "when people say "good guys", they don't necessarily mean armed minions of das kollective; they mean individuals not being prevented from protecting themselves and their property, which is their right."
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You need to be very careful!
If the thief or whatever tries to leave your property it is not allowed to shoot him in the back, AFAIK. Even in the USA it is not tolerated to murder people who steal stuff? |
you are joking right? Of course it is! |
This sounds resonable:
| Quote: | | Before we proceed you need to realize an important issue: In the American court system, life is normally given priority over property. |
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | Often with guns. |
Sorry. If guns don't kill people they don't save people either. You don't need them. |
Zing! |
Both of you should look up the definition of tool. Education, you need it.
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The whole system has to go. The modern criminal justice system is incompatible with Neuroscience. --Sapolsky |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Zing!
Spank!
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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Muso
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | It just highlights that you can't just have "good guys" protecting everything. |
Which is why it is better if people protected themselves. Arming yourself is a much better alternative than living in a police state with a cop every 10 meters.
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People Of Love
Kindness Evokes Kindness
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Zing!
_________________
| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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sikpuppy
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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This is you not appealing to ridicule is it? |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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It's me ridiculing, plain and simple. An "appeal to ridicule" is when you're trying to degrade your opponent's argument by ridiculing it. Here, his argument is never a consideration; all I'm ridiculing is his asinine blurting of "Zing". 
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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