Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
5 Star Trek Captains Panel at Wizard World Philly Comic Con
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16119
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: 5 Star Trek Captains Panel at Wizard World Philly Comic Con Reply with quote

5 Star Trek Captains Panel at Wizard World Philly Comic Con

Looks like I owe an apology to Kate Mulgrew. Apparently it was the decision of the executives that she overcompensate in season 1. I'll have to give it another shot. (Though I didn't care for the holo Doc or the Vulcan.)
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even consider Scott Bakula and Enterprise part of Star Trek
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been giving DS9 a go. I'm almost done with season 1, so it is still somewhat decent but I know it will soon turn into a serial format with the Dominion bullshit.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16119
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
I don't even consider Scott Bakula and Enterprise part of Star Trek
Except for the last season / serial warfare tangent, I thought it ranked up there closely with TOS.


Old School wrote:
I've been giving DS9 a go. I'm almost done with season 1, so it is still somewhat decent but I know it will soon turn into a serial format with the Dominion bullshit.
Was it that early? I thought most of the Dominion stuff was much later in the series. Perhaps I'm thinking of something else.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
I've been giving DS9 a go. I'm almost done with season 1, so it is still somewhat decent but I know it will soon turn into a serial format with the Dominion bullshit.

The guy who plays Weyoun (the weasely, conniving Vorta), played Dr. Herbert West in The Reanimator. He also shows up as different characters in Voyager and Enterprise.
_________________
Deja Moo: the feeling that you've heard this bull before
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Butts McCokey wrote:
I don't even consider Scott Bakula and Enterprise part of Star Trek
Except for the last season / serial warfare tangent, I thought it ranked up there closely with TOS.

My sentiments exactly.


Old School wrote:
I've been giving DS9 a go. I'm almost done with season 1, so it is still somewhat decent but I know it will soon turn into a serial format with the Dominion bullshit.
pjp wrote:
Was it that early? I thought most of the Dominion stuff was much later in the series. Perhaps I'm thinking of something else.
The Dominion are referred to early, the Dominion War takes place later in the serial.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16119
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was thinking of the war. I didn't mind the earlier parts.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking of the war. I didn't mind the earlier parts.
I thought the dominion war parts were great. DS9 got better when Sisko got a beard and got a LOT better when he also shaved his head at the start of season 3
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hated the serial format. Much prefer stand alone episodes. There can still be a continuing story line, it just takes more creative writing. Something Rick Berman is unfamiliar with.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16119
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
pjp wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking of the war. I didn't mind the earlier parts.
I thought the dominion war parts were great. DS9 got better when Sisko got a beard and got a LOT better when he also shaved his head at the start of season 3
I just decided that was when DS9 entered the evil alterverse and unfortunately never made it back. Makes it less bad that way :P
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
I hated the serial format. Much prefer stand alone episodes. There can still be a continuing story line, it just takes more creative writing. Something Rick Berman is unfamiliar with.

You mean you don't like soap operas?
_________________
Deja Moo: the feeling that you've heard this bull before
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Old School wrote:
I hated the serial format. Much prefer stand alone episodes. There can still be a continuing story line, it just takes more creative writing. Something Rick Berman is unfamiliar with.

You mean you don't like soap operas?

I don't like anything that does not feature gratuitous female frontal nudity.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wildhorse
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Estados Unidos De América

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Wishes Were Horses
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii602/warburtd/DS9/ec01c11e.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
I hated the serial format. Much prefer stand alone episodes. There can still be a continuing story line, it just takes more creative writing. Something Rick Berman is unfamiliar with.
longer story arcs definitely give better character development. The problem with DS9 was that the stories were good but apart from Sisko the character's were considerably weaker. If the same stories were done with the TNG crew it would have been a lot better. In fact if it wasn't for the Dominion/founders and it's shaky relationship with the Cardassians I don't think DS9 would have lasted as long as it did because it brought two very good characters - the female changeling and Weyoun - who brought a new dimension to Sisko, Odo, Garak and Dukat and to a lesser extent, Kira
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOS and Next Gen did very well with character development without a serial format. But then again, they were both Roddenberry creations, not Berman's.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16119
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
TOS and Next Gen did very well with character development without a serial format. But then again, they were both Roddenberry creations, not Berman's.
++

I liked Avery Brooks from Spenser for Hire, so I was looking forward to DS9 when I heard he was in it. Unfortunately I didn't think his character was all that compelling. I do think he did a good job at being a first time captain.

I liked Odo, Ducat, Quark and the Old Man (can't remember her name). Bashir at least didn't seem like an attempt to replicate a TOS character, which was good. He was a good supporting character.

I liked Worf on TNG, but didn't think they did the character justice when he moved to DS9. O'Brien was OK, but they just didn't (or couldn't) make it a compelling character.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
TOS and Next Gen did very well with character development without a serial format. But then again, they were both Roddenberry creations, not Berman's.
I agree, if the characters had been better there should have been license for better development, just that the characters weren't strong enough and neither were the people portraying them. For instance, if you take the captains out and go down the hierarchy: Riker v Kira, Data v Dax, LaForge v O'Brien, Worf v Odo, Crusher v Bashir.

Apart from Crusher v Bashir the TNG characters are far stronger. DS9 needed the strong story arcs just to be relevant because the characters weren't good enough. Personally I loved them and DS9 start getting really good when the characters were made to go through a long gruelling war and they tried (and often failed) to keep their "Star Trek morals" in the heat or war. Also the little nuances like the non-aggression pacts, the Klingons and the Romulans saving the Federation and the turning of the Nog, the worst character ever, earning his stripes in war and turning into one of the best.

Oddly enough, where I think DS9 really excelled were 2 things: the enemies and the Cardassians (not mutually exclusive). Dukat, the Cardassians, the Maquis, the Dominion, the Vorta, the Founders, they all made excellent foes. ESPECIALLY "Brunt... FCA" :lol:
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And TNG had Whoopi Goldberg and the deus ex machina of the "holodeck".
_________________
Deja Moo: the feeling that you've heard this bull before
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 5 Star Trek Captains Panel at Wizard World Philly Comic Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
5 Star Trek Captains Panel at Wizard World Philly Comic Con

Looks like I owe an apology to Kate Mulgrew. Apparently it was the decision of the executives that she overcompensate in season 1. I'll have to give it another shot. (Though I didn't care for the holo Doc or the Vulcan.)

I liked the holo doc. He was my favorite character on that show. I agree with you on the Vulcan. Way too wooden maybe. I don't really remember why I didn't like the character.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16119
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only character I remember thinking had a chance to be decent was Tattoo. But that was only in pieces of a handful of episodes I couldn't finish watching :).
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
And TNG had Whoopi Goldberg and the deus ex machina of the "holodeck".

TNG lasted around three seasons past it's prime.

It's like comparing the athlete that knows it is time to hang up the gear, and the one that keeps thinking he can regain that edge, when he is way past his prime, and is just making a mockery of his former self.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holodeck is ultimate shark-jumping tool. That and 'Q' (who can do anything, ergo literally deus ex machina, without even needing the machina). I used to groan every time Q showed up.
_________________
Deja Moo: the feeling that you've heard this bull before
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Holodeck is ultimate shark-jumping tool. That and 'Q' (who can do anything, ergo literally deus ex machina, without even needing the machina). I used to groan every time Q showed up.

The whole concept of the tranporter in the original series was just a cost saving measure.

Quote:
According to The Making of Star Trek, Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry's original plan did not include transporters, instead calling for characters to land the starship itself. However, this would have required unfeasible and unaffordable sets and model filming, as well as episode running time spent while landing, taking off, etc. The shuttlecraft was the next idea, but when filming began, the full-sized shooting model was not ready. Transporters were devised as a less expensive alternative, achieved by a simple fade-out/fade-in of the subject.

_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
I used to groan every time Q showed up.


They missed an opportunity with Q - 'All Good Things' and Tapestry (I think that was the episode) hinted at Q being something more.

Then they threw all that away with Voyager.
_________________
Easy .. easy .. easy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
Holodeck is ultimate shark-jumping tool. That and 'Q' (who can do anything, ergo literally deus ex machina, without even needing the machina). I used to groan every time Q showed up.

The whole concept of the tranporter in the original series was just a cost saving measure.

Quote:
According to The Making of Star Trek, Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry's original plan did not include transporters, instead calling for characters to land the starship itself. However, this would have required unfeasible and unaffordable sets and model filming, as well as episode running time spent while landing, taking off, etc. The shuttlecraft was the next idea, but when filming began, the full-sized shooting model was not ready. Transporters were devised as a less expensive alternative, achieved by a simple fade-out/fade-in of the subject.

Fascinating. As Spock might say.
_________________
Deja Moo: the feeling that you've heard this bull before
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum