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erm67
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Convergence done right (maru os) Reply with quote

http://maruos.com/#/

Quote:
It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.

Connect your phone to any HDMI screen.

Maru automatically detects when an external display is available and spins up your desktop. It boots in less than 5 seconds.


Pair up a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

Any Android-compatible bluetooth peripherals will work with Maru.


Enjoy desktop productivity.

Gotta run? Disconnect from your screen and Maru will preserve your desktop state in the background so you can pick up right where you left off.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The only PC you need is the one in your pocket.


That is the problem, for the industry.

When Apple came out with the iPod Touch, bored, I had gone into the local store and asked how I hooked it up to my monitor, keyboard and mouse. Silence and looks of confusion ensued.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
Quote:
The only PC you need is the one in your pocket.


That is the problem, for the industry.

When Apple came out with the iPod Touch, bored, I had gone into the local store and asked how I hooked it up to my monitor, keyboard and mouse. Silence and looks of confusion ensued.

The linux desktop subsystem is not a bad idea.
8 cpu@2.2 GHz and 4G RAm is overkill for android (or ios).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A small step forward.

Quote:
If you can dream it, you can do it.
I dream of having at least 2 large screens and the keyboard and at least one monitor connected so I don't have to manage loose devices.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
A small step forward.

Quote:
If you can dream it, you can do it.
I dream of having at least 2 large screens and the keyboard and at least one monitor connected so I don't have to manage loose devices.

You can do most of that with the ThinkPad 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTKtW7-_d2w

I have one on the way.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
A small step forward.

Quote:
If you can dream it, you can do it.
I dream of having at least 2 large screens and the keyboard and at least one monitor connected so I don't have to manage loose devices.


Like connecting to phone to a monitor with an hdmi cable and use the linux with keyboard and mouse on it, while at the same time use chromecast/miracast to cast android on 2 large screens using the touch screen?

It's very likely that it will be doable, on 1 large screen at least.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
pjp wrote:
A small step forward.

Quote:
If you can dream it, you can do it.
I dream of having at least 2 large screens and the keyboard and at least one monitor connected so I don't have to manage loose devices.

You can do most of that with the ThinkPad 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTKtW7-_d2w

I have one on the way.
Did you buy it used? I just checked Lenovo, and it lists it as discontinued.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Like connecting to phone to a monitor with an hdmi cable and use the linux with keyboard and mouse on it, while at the same time use chromecast/miracast to cast android on 2 large screens using the touch screen?

It's very likely that it will be doable, on 1 large screen at least.
For my tastes, I don't care for current implementations of tablets with non-integrated and crappy keyboards. I'd like the keyboard integrated and of laptop quality (preferably better). The cabling doesn't concern me much, though HDMI's DRM issues aren't ideal. If *casting works, I don't care about that either. Doesn't casting work over wireless? Seems like it could have bandwidth issues. Other than that, the only issue would be vendor lock-in / app stores.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
McSwartz wrote:
pjp wrote:
A small step forward.

Quote:
If you can dream it, you can do it.
I dream of having at least 2 large screens and the keyboard and at least one monitor connected so I don't have to manage loose devices.

You can do most of that with the ThinkPad 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTKtW7-_d2w

I have one on the way.
Did you buy it used? I just checked Lenovo, and it lists it as discontinued.

I got the 2nd to the last one available from Amazon. The morning after I made that purchase, it was gone.

EDIT: They still have used and refurbished models available:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I9ZR5Y2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

WARNING: There are some complications with this device. I'll post the low-down after I wade through them. They involve the USB dock and fresh installs.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
I got the 2nd to the last one available from Amazon. The morning after I made that purchase, it was gone.

EDIT: They still have used and refurbished models available:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I9ZR5Y2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

WARNING: There are some complications with this device. I'll post the low-down after I wade through them. They involve the USB dock and fresh installs.
I was going to ask for a review once you've had a chance to put it through its paces. Maybe they'll have a next gen version.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
McSwartz wrote:
I got the 2nd to the last one available from Amazon. The morning after I made that purchase, it was gone.

EDIT: They still have used and refurbished models available:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I9ZR5Y2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

WARNING: There are some complications with this device. I'll post the low-down after I wade through them. They involve the USB dock and fresh installs.
I was going to ask for a review once you've had a chance to put it through its paces. Maybe they'll have a next gen version.

That's a good question. They released it as a dockable 8" Windows tablet, which at the start of 2014, was an absolutely useless concept. With Windows 7, it would suck at being a tablet. With Windows 8, it would suck at being a PC.

Maybe now that Windows 10 is second place only to 7, they'll take another look at it. You can tell the average person about docking a tablet and having it transform into a PC, but they won't understand until they actually see it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tablets screen real estate is too small to be useful as a productive desktop and too big to fit comfortably in the pocket. Beside that PU power and memory is the same as a smartphone, that is probably why tablets are slowly disappearing while phablet sale are increasing. Since I am going to use it on a regular monitor with keyboard and mouse I don't need a 10'' monitor and that is the only difference between a tablet and a phone.
There might be uses for a tablet but probably not as a portable computer.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Tablets screen real estate is too small to be useful as a productive desktop and too big to fit comfortably in the pocket. Beside that PU power and memory is the same as a smartphone, that is probably why tablets are slowly disappearing while phablet sale are increasing. Since I am going to use it on a regular monitor with keyboard and mouse I don't need a 10'' monitor and that is the only difference between a tablet and a phone.
There might be uses for a tablet but probably not as a portable computer.

That's not the point of the ThinkPad 8 with Windows 10 or Ubuntu 16. The point is that you can have a portable, touch-friendly device while you're out and about, and that you can also have a full desktop when you get home and dock it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Tablets screen real estate is too small to be useful as a productive desktop and too big to fit comfortably in the pocket. Beside that PU power and memory is the same as a smartphone, that is probably why tablets are slowly disappearing while phablet sale are increasing. Since I am going to use it on a regular monitor with keyboard and mouse I don't need a 10'' monitor and that is the only difference between a tablet and a phone.
There might be uses for a tablet but probably not as a portable computer.

That's not the point of the ThinkPad 8 with Windows 10 or Ubuntu 16. The point is that you can have a portable, touch-friendly device while you're out and about, and that you can also have a full desktop when you get home and dock it.

The problem is that, unless someone has a specific need for a touch device, an ultrabook is 1000 times better as a portable device when you are out and not much bigger than a tablet ...... Most people with a tablet just don't know what do with it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Tablets screen real estate is too small to be useful as a productive desktop and too big to fit comfortably in the pocket. Beside that PU power and memory is the same as a smartphone, that is probably why tablets are slowly disappearing while phablet sale are increasing.
Phablets are even smaller and still don't fit in a pocket, so that can't explain why sales are increasing (if they actually are). My phone has a ~6" screen, and I would not buy a bigger screen. Functionally, it is a pretty useless format. Trying to type things in with a virtual keyboard is pathetic as an interface. I'd rather have a real keyboard, or a desktop app that I can click "send to device." The phone sized device is nearly exclusively for consumption. Which is why I want to be able to attach at least 2 screens.

erm67 wrote:
Since I am going to use it on a regular monitor with keyboard and mouse I don't need a 10'' monitor and that is the only difference between a tablet and a phone.
There might be uses for a tablet but probably not as a portable computer.
erm67 wrote:
The problem is that, unless someone has a specific need for a touch device, an ultrabook is 1000 times better as a portable device when you are out and not much bigger than a tablet ...... Most people with a tablet just don't know what do with it.
What's the difference between a tablet with a keyboard and a netbook? I didn't even realize those things were still being made. As a mobile device, either a tablet or an actual laptop would seem far more useful.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
8 cpu@2.2 GHz and 4G RAm is overkill for android (or ios).

You'd think so. But Android has bloated exponentially along with the hardware.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
erm67 wrote:
8 cpu@2.2 GHz and 4G RAm is overkill for android (or ios).

You'd think so. But Android has bloated exponentially along with the hardware.

I recall Android 6's performance on my Nexus 5 as being less than exceptional. It blew my mind when Windows 10 Mobile ran better on a phone with 512 MB of RAM and a 1.2 GHz quad core.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
aidanjt wrote:
erm67 wrote:
8 cpu@2.2 GHz and 4G RAm is overkill for android (or ios).

You'd think so. But Android has bloated exponentially along with the hardware.

I recall Android 6's performance on my Nexus 5 as being less than exceptional. It blew my mind when Windows 10 Mobile ran better on a phone with 512 MB of RAM and a 1.2 GHz quad core.
It'll be interesting to see if that was and remains a goal, or if it was a side effect of the design target platform. It seems like most software eventually gives in to bloat instead of performance. And don't forget planned obsolescence. I don't know how much Google relies on that, but Apple certainly does.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one contributing factor is that WinRT uses reference counting instead of garbage collection. As such, there are never unused allocations sitting around on the heap; things are cleaned up precisely when they need to be. Also, WinRT is principally asynchronous, so GUI programming with it is inherently non-blocking.

Microsoft's ultimate vision is to have an operating system that can be used to power any sort of device they wish to put on the market and to do so with minimal work. If they want to bring a new device onto the market, all they have to do at this point is create a Windows 10 shell for it, if this device even has a display. Principally, Windows 10 OneCore does not require implementations to be headful.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
I think one contributing factor is that WinRT uses reference counting instead of garbage collection


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)

Quote:
Reference counting is a form of garbage collection whereby each object has a count of the number of references to it.


McSwartz wrote:
WinRT is principally asynchronous, so GUI programming with it is inherently non-blocking.


Just do business logic on the UI thread. There you go, nothing that can fix that.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a bad day, javaboy? The garbage collection issue is purely semantic and I sure as hell never said anything about business processing in the UI layer.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
Having a bad day, javaboy? The garbage collection issue is purely semantic and I sure as hell never said anything about business processing in the UI layer.


garbage collection *is* reference counting. You can't have garbage collection without reference counting. How would you know what garbage to collect? You probably meant manual reference counting vs automatic. The async UI thread is also quite nonsical, as any program can start doing long running tasks (eg business logic) ont he UI thread, regardless of the async thread model implied by the UI widget toolkit (used by about *any* ui toolkit out there now). All it takes is one program to screw the 'fast' experience.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, you're having a bad day.

EDIT: Are you saying one WinRT app can hold the rest up? There's no way you meant that like I read it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: Convergence done right (maru os) Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
http://maruos.com/#/

Quote:
It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.

Connect your phone to any HDMI screen.

Maru automatically detects when an external display is available and spins up your desktop. It boots in less than 5 seconds.


Pair up a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

Any Android-compatible bluetooth peripherals will work with Maru.


Enjoy desktop productivity.

Gotta run? Disconnect from your screen and Maru will preserve your desktop state in the background so you can pick up right where you left off.

This is pretty cool, but why rely on a phone for it? Why not a watch? Or better yet, as I keep saying, why not just put a chip in everyone's head, then we could have this all the time and not have to carry anything! That's the ultimate convergence. I think we can all agree it's high time everybody had a chip in their head.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
Yup, you're having a bad day.

EDIT: Are you saying one WinRT app can hold the rest up? There's no way you meant that like I read it.


Not the whole thing, just that app.

My point was essentially that the reasons you stated why winRT feels fast are not the reasons why it feels fast. The reason is a combination of code bloat, bad code and slow dalvik jit on android. (The code in the dungeons of android is absolutely horrible)
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