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Muso
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:44 am    Post subject: F**ked over by Obamacare Reply with quote

Fu*%ed Over By ObamaCare

I'm waiting for an apology from all of the idiots who supported this horrendous mistake.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too. Generally the response I get is, "greedy corporations are using the ACA as a copout to stop paying for the previous more quality healthcare programs. We need a single payor system."

That's funny because I will retort that Republicans and Libertarians and even some objecting Democrats have argued that single payor is exactly where this mess leads to. ...but slippery slope is a logical fallacy... :x :roll:

Side note: I work for an ambulance service. There are no in network ER physicians within 3 counties that except our health insurance now, not even at our parent hospital system (our owners).

#thanksObama.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course you need a single payer system, it's people that didn't want it that got the system into such a mess. You wouldn't be there if you just decided to base your system on the NHS - in fact the NHS costs half as much to run as your previous system.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rush Limbaugh has said from day one of this disaster that the whole point was to coerce people into accepting single payer.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should watch this: Sicko and then decide which is the better solution.

As an outsider/european i did agree with Obama when he wanted to change the health care system.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was good of Obama to change it. Bad of congress to change it into the abortion it currently is in.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
It was good of Obama to change it. Bad of congress to change it into the abortion it currently is in.


The law is a disaster. It was never a good idea. This is why you don't let lawyers control health care.

Like everything the state touches, it turned to shit.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
It was good of Obama to change it. Bad of congress to change it into the abortion it currently is in.
Exactly... the concept of universal healthcare is daily used in about 50countries in the world and has been for 50+ years... soo many to go over to pick the pro's and con's

The original obamaCare concept was valid but it got gangbanged by special interest individuals who were in the pockets of big business who were after a return on their bribes.
It really is mindboggling how they managed to screw this up. Blame obama, blame the democrats... I blame special interest groups and the political landscape that allows bribes
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not one republican voted for Obamacare.

This mess is 100% the fault of the democrat party and its gross incompetence at doing anything beyond stealing elections.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Not one republican voted for Obamacare.

This mess is 100% the fault of the democrat party and its gross incompetence at doing anything beyond stealing elections.
Not enough republicans got voted to counter it. The Rep fucked up by pissing off the electorate.
Likewise these special interest group pay both sides to get what they want. If clinton gets in, its going to get worse
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Republicans didn't fuck up, not enough people cared. When Obamacare was actually signed into law, the GOP took back the House with a decisive victory, and have held it since.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McSwartz wrote:
The Republicans didn't fuck up, not enough people cared. When Obamacare was actually signed into law, the GOP took back the House with a decisive victory, and have held it since.
BUT they lost it before to facilitate the perversion of the concept & its signing into law. Why did they lose the majorities? because they had fucked something up previous .

And to put this into perspective... The republicans passed the 911 bill and the veto'ed the president override.. the fallout for Americans being able to sue Saudi will be other countries doing the same thing
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
cokey wrote:
It was good of Obama to change it. Bad of congress to change it into the abortion it currently is in.


The law is a disaster. It was never a good idea. This is why you don't let lawyers control health care.

Like everything the state touches, it turned to shit.
I think the NHS was organised and suggested by doctors in the BMA (British Medical Association)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the question for muso and McSwartz is whether they would have supported the idea of an identical system from a European country that has been in use successfully for 50, 60, 70 years?

And now you have seen the Abortioncare (I just made that up) fiasco, would you vote for it now?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.

You'd best be advised to behave, lest John-Boy and I report you to the Department of Mindset Compliance.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a question... Forget about ObamaCare... would you have wanted things to carry on as they were?

I am sure a reply would be "that's better than what we have" but that's because what has been created is a monstrosity. Forget ObamaCare was even conceived... could healthcare in the US continued as it had.

Now bear in mind my grandfather died, slowly, under american healthcare at great expense, likewise a cousin-in-law got stung by some ridiculously expensive & single minded approach to their particular ... incident; my views are already skewed by that as well as being a brit under the NHS. Couple that with my better than most brit's knowledge of actual pharmaceutical costs & what the equivalent is sold at in the US, be very concise with your reply
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.
you would never be able to afford any medical short of 1st aid kit supplies. This is the reason insurance exists. You are paying for others.
1st world medical, supported via an insurance model works on the basis that the majority do not need medical attention. The difference is America went down some overly capitalistic route with the vision of "competition" but with many but smaller medical insurance entities, their pool is alot smaller which drives up premiums. These premiums are covered by work-place employment perks so the full cost is not made visible. Those that cannot make use of company back insurance scheme are stung the hardest
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Here is a question... Forget about ObamaCare... would you have wanted things to carry on as they were?


Before the HMO laws, which messed up the system in the first place. Just having a proper insurance pool of responsible people works well. There is medicaid for those who cannot afford.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.
So you want a double system like the UK has. Those who want private hospitals and restaurant food can pay for their own care (or get it provided by their job) but the vast majority (and people visiting the country) have care that isn't dependent on paying
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Muso wrote:
Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.
So you want a double system like the UK has. Those who want private hospitals and restaurant food can pay for their own care (or get it provided by their job) but the vast majority (and people visiting the country) have care that isn't dependent on paying


The US already had Medicaid since 1965. All Obamacare did was turn good health care into Medicaid... and now if you're responsible, you're paying for it twice, and it costs more than the previous insurance. Obama is driving the health care system into the ditch for no good reason.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
cokey wrote:
Muso wrote:
Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.
So you want a double system like the UK has. Those who want private hospitals and restaurant food can pay for their own care (or get it provided by their job) but the vast majority (and people visiting the country) have care that isn't dependent on paying


The US already had Medicaid since 1965. All Obamacare did was turn good health care into Medicaid... and now if you're responsible, you're paying for it twice, and it costs more than the previous insurance. Obama is driving the health care system into the ditch for no good reason.
So medicaid has its own hospitals, research facilities, training hospitals, university campuses, guaranteed income and is run by local trusts outside the control of the government?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
gangbanged by special interest individuals who were in the pockets of big union who were after a return on their bribes.
Had they picked the pro's and eliminated the cons, it might have had broad support and passed credibly.

Instead, Democrats and Obama gave exemptions to unions who DID NOT WANT Obamacare.

It is indeed mind boggling that Democrat supporters in congress and their major special interests are not using the law they forced upon others. If it didn't suck, both would be proud to use it.

It needs to be eliminated, regardless of the alternative. Duct tape and bailing wire amendments are not going to improve it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/upshot/its-easy-for-obamacare-critics-to-overlook-the-merits-of-medicaid-expansion.html

Quote:
Such declarations consider only one side of the equation, though. In most ways, Medicaid offers an excellent return on investment.

A rigorous analysis of the health benefits of being insured shows that Medicaid works on a number of levels. Critics of the program will point to studies that show that having Medicaid is associated with poor outcomes, even worse than those for the uninsured. Such studies are often flawed, however, in that those on Medicaid are often poorer and sicker than those who are uninsured.


Quote:
Benefits from Medicaid extend beyond health. A 2016 National Bureau of Economic Research working paper examined the effect of the Medicaid expansion on financial outcomes of beneficiaries. Using credit report data, researchers showed that the expansion was associated with a reduction of collection balances of as much as $1,000 for those receiving Medicaid.


So apparently oblablacare is bad for the rich & healty, good for the rest of USians, according to demcracy rules, the rich & healty shrinking minority (after the recent deflation crysis) has no chance to repel it.......
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Muso wrote:
cokey wrote:
Muso wrote:
Get the government out of my doctors office, period. I want to pay for myself and my family... as that is where my responsibilities end.
So you want a double system like the UK has. Those who want private hospitals and restaurant food can pay for their own care (or get it provided by their job) but the vast majority (and people visiting the country) have care that isn't dependent on paying


The US already had Medicaid since 1965. All Obamacare did was turn good health care into Medicaid... and now if you're responsible, you're paying for it twice, and it costs more than the previous insurance. Obama is driving the health care system into the ditch for no good reason.
So medicaid has its own hospitals, research facilities, training hospitals, university campuses, guaranteed income and is run by local trusts outside the control of the government?
No. Medicaid just pays for care at the same doctors, and hospitals as everyone else uses.
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