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ToeiRei
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, John - that's pretty close. I have found a disto that allows me to build for the specific computer it's intended to run on, reducing the overhead of useless code pretty well (i.e. MSSQL in a PHP Binary where there's no MSSQL in sight)

btw - still 23 packages left to be compiled. I had to add an extra cooling fan to keep the cpu alive.
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8mihi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As succinct summary of S1 vs S3 I've seen in a while.
Quote:
If you do
* A standard stage3 install to the end of the Handbook,
* Set your CFLAGS and LDFLAGS optimally for your CPU,
* Change your CHOST to most closely match your hardware,
* Run an "emerge --emptytree system" (twice if you really feel like it), and, finally,
* Run an "emerge --emptytree world", ...

Curious, why/when would you run 'emerge --emptytree system' twice? (I mean, why the '...feel like it' qualifier?) Is the second pass a 'safety' of sorts?

John R. Graham wrote:

A stage1 install, in the final analysis, is, I believe, just a more complicated, deprecated alternate method for achieving the same result. Doesn't mean it's not interesting to the truly hard core, though.
Nice assessment, imvho.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8mihi

Quote:

* A standard stage3 install to the end of the Handbook,
* Set your CFLAGS and LDFLAGS optimally for your CPU,
* Change your CHOST to most closely match your hardware,
* Run an "emerge --emptytree system" (twice if you really feel like it), and, finally,
* Run an "emerge --emptytree world", ...


Thats doomed to fail as soon as you change CHOST, you must rebuilf your toolchain in the right order and emerge usually doesn't do that.
If you change CHOST and follow the above guide, you will end up with a broken tool chain.

You need to follow the CHOST changing guide, or run the stage1 script bootstrap.sh
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy, my description suggested following the official guide for changing the CHOST. Could you look at my post again and, perhaps, comment again? I don't believe I've gotten anything wrong.

- John
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham,

Your post is fine - you provided a link to the CHOST changing guide too.
Unfortunately for me, the link got dropped in the quote, which I read as just set your CHOST ...
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8mihi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Thats doomed to fail as soon as you change CHOST, you must rebuilf your toolchain in the right order and emerge usually doesn't do that.
If you change CHOST and follow the above guide, you will end up with a broken tool chain.

You need to follow the CHOST changing guide, or run the stage1 script bootstrap.sh

oh for sure, understood, thanks Neddy. I'm good on that and appreciate the clarification. Definitely aware changing CHOST is non-trivial. I've completed at least dozen successful Stage1s since '04 (servers, laptops and workstation). All installs since '09 have been S3 as install time was a primary motivator.
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Simba7
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8mihi wrote:
oh for sure, understood, thanks Neddy. I'm good on that and appreciate the clarification. Definitely aware changing CHOST is non-trivial. I've completed at least dozen successful Stage1s since '04 (servers, laptops and workstation). All installs since '09 have been S3 as install time was a primary motivator.

Of course, with the speeds of todays systems, a stage1 would take a couple hours minimum.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8mihi wrote:
Just wanted today Thank You for this.

Why is that? Why are folks still curious about Stage1? Is it really just Gentoo 'mythology' born of ricer dreams and whispers across the net that 'real Gentooer's do Stage1'? (lol) Or is it a 'rite of passage' thing for Gentoo folk?

I've always understood the reasoning for deprecating the Stage1 from the Gentoo handbook for new users - no question, it IS conceptually hard for an inexperienced GNU/Linux user to understand why we want (need?) to rebuild so much stuff upfront to get to that satisfying first boot prompt. Moving to the Stage3 process probably brought in many 'new' users to Gentoo, which otherwise would have not had good outcomes with Stage1 their first time out.

Still, with all the multi-core processing power out there on the desktop, Stage1 installs really don't seem like they'd be much of a time hindrance any more.

Anyone know of more recent links/data either supporting or debunking Stage1/Stage3 mythology? Perhaps the speed of the newer hardware has all but wiped out any potential difference and it really is/has been a closed case for Stage3 at this point (?)


The reason Stage1's will stay around, is that sometimes it's needed for things like "amd64-gentoo-linux-uclibc" installs, and other odd systems like that, think embedded anything. For general use, no need to do stage1 unless you feel like it.

I wonder how much work LFS -> gentoo stage1 is?
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XavierMiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynyr wrote:

I wonder how much work LFS -> gentoo stage1 is?


Quite easy :)
http://www.xaviermiller.be/?page_id=98
Code:
wget http://www.xaviermiller.be/glfs/glfs.sh
chmod a+x glfs.sh
./glfs.sh

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hedmo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just have to say some thing in this topic .I made a stage1 Jun 23 with stage1.amd64.2008.tar.gz
an just followed the handbook with no problem no bootstap or something like that.there were two thing
i did 1. got the new gcc 2.maked shore that i could make a newuse update

so why bootsrap and e world
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StifflerStealth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xavier, that script of yours is brilliant!
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XavierMiller
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you :)
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Simba7
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hedmo wrote:
so why bootsrap and e world

If you're doing a ground-up install, this is part of it.

This also compiles the latest required packages so everything's compiled with the current code (ex. gcc-4.4.4, kernel-headers-2.6.35, etc). So when you do an emerge -e system, it'll compile with 4.4.4 instead of what comes with the stage.

I always do a Stage1 on all of my installs.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been using gentoo since oh, way back when (1.4 is the oldest cd I have here) but there has been a time of great change when I simply did not do much to my systems. Having found that stage 1 was gone and the need to install on a Via C3 I have been googling myself half blind to find a working solution.

One of them is the change CHOST guide. Asuming that I am not doing anything wrong (which is pretty stupid ofcourse ;) ) then the procedure does not work for me really. So from that point of view, perhaps in theory the result of a stage1 vs a stage3 > change chost is identical, in practice the latter does not work (for me).

I am going for a stage1 now that I have something to go with.

PS if you are interested to know what is going wrong:

a lot, I need to run fix_libtool before I can emerge gcc, after that is done I get:
Code:

gcc-config: error: could not run/locate 'i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc'


running gcc-config won't help, I have tried re-emerging python, editing the python Makefile, forcing gcc-config to regenerate the configs, and so on and so forth. ONLY when trying to build glibc I get that bloody error, and when I try to compile something else the "new" gcc is properly beeing used. So let's see what stage1 does ;)

Keep you posted.

-P
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*
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ToeiRei
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like you changed the CHOST...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*

Looks like my little script is still functioning well.. I just did a Stage1 on a Poweredge 2550.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XavierMiller wrote:
Thank you :)



Perfect your script! But I'm not getting the Binutils build ...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wellington_spock wrote:
XavierMiller wrote:
Thank you :)



Perfect your script! But I'm not getting the Binutils build ...


Hello,

I saw your message in my blog.

Try again as root.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*

I updated it to the latest Stage1 Gentoo package from the Funtoo project.
I also checked it to reflect kernel/kernel-headers 2.6.38.

So far, so good. Still works great.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8mihi wrote:
Quote:
If you do
* A standard stage3 install to the end of the Handbook,
* Set your CFLAGS and LDFLAGS optimally for your CPU,
* Change your CHOST to most closely match your hardware,
* Run an "emerge --emptytree system" (twice if you really feel like it), and, finally,
* Run an "emerge --emptytree world", ...

Curious, why/when would you run 'emerge --emptytree system' twice? (I mean, why the '...feel like it' qualifier?) Is the second pass a 'safety' of sorts?

I've found that after a major toolchain upgrade that there are usually a couple packages that do not build in the 1st emerge -e system. They do in the 2nd.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roki942 wrote:
I've found that after a major toolchain upgrade that there are usually a couple packages that do not build in the 1st emerge -e system. They do in the 2nd.

I've never bumped into this problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*

I shifted the entire script back to 2.6.36 (if you use btrfs) until the btrfs issue is fixed.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I've used this guide to install Gentoo on my 64-bit Laptop and so far it has been woking great, so thank you!

Now, I want to do the same on an old Laptop I still have sitting around here, however I ran into a little problem:
The mirror does not have any stage1 archives for 32 bit anymore. 64 bit versions are still on. Is this just a temporary issue and will new ones get uploaded in the future, or is this a dead thing? Would be a shame, since I have not been able to find any up-to-date stage1 archives anywhere else.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Altaran
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

altaran,

You can use a stage3 for a stage1 install.
Untar the stage3 and do the stage1 steps. The only extra time is that the stage3 is bigger than the stage1 so your are downloading things that you will rebuild anyway.
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