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kiksen
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm happy with Gentoo and not at all prepared to switch.

About the quality of ebuilds. Please consider contributing if your favourite package is less than perfectly packed. I think the situation has improved lately, but I'm willing to help and will find something to work on.

Keep up the good work devs!

For production servers I prefer FBSD.

/kiksen
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gentoo_dude
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not switching from gentoo linux to any other OS or linux distribution
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brew1brew
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: I'm coming back! Reply with quote

I ran Gentoo back in 2003 or so and loved it, but got frustrated when I did an emerge world and messed up all the config files.

So I'm preping my wifes new laptop with HD encryption and all. I look forward to getting it going. If all goes well with it I plan to convert my wifes desktop and my desktop, then I will convert my work laptop if I'm happy with the others.

I've used Kubuntu for the last 2.3 years and it's been ok, but some things are a challenge at times. Prior to that I ran Mandriva/Mandrake. I tried both Mandriva and Kubuntu on my wifes new compaq f700 and had minor issues with both distros. Mandriva would not auto mount compacFlash/SD card reader or USB HD, and Kubuntu had issues with the NVidia drivers.

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eno2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Has it really been 2 years? Reply with quote

I've been running Gentoo for two years, and I'm pretty happy with it, warts and all. What I've been discovering is that about half of the problems are usually some Gentoo specific approach that I was unaware of. I recently was griping about how 'etc-update' wipes out config files and I have to keep exiting to compare the old and new files. Someone pointed out that I could do the compare within 'etc-update' as well as merges and edits. So... I learned something new and now another one of my gripes is gone. The only main gripe I have is when I search the forums for a solution to a problem and it's kind of a free for all with no effort to consolidate posts in some fashion. I wind up with three different approaches, two of which are wrong or at best inaccurate. The other part of the time no one responds to posts I've put up (or other people who are having the same issue I am having). Whatever the case, the things I love about Gentoo are being able to use the "latest and greatest", having the code optimized for performance (even though a lot of programs spend the majority of their time waiting for input, the apparent speed boost when loading the applications is still worth it), and most important of all; Gentoo FORCES you to learn things about the underlying systems. What you learn here you can take to just about any other distro to be able to get under the hood there. Especially helpful when you have multiple flavors to work with.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

++eno2001; you should check out dispatch-conf and etc-proposals btw. And update ofc ;)

Wrt to getting support, irc.freenode.org #gentoo really is all it's cracked up to be (#gentoo-uk if that's too busy and you're there during EU daylight hours.)
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danhickox
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:15 am    Post subject: OSSwitch.conf Reply with quote

Wouldn't switch to the other linux distros even for a cookie... I work for an ISP and had the opportunity to work with many distros in production use. I've worked with gentoo for 2 years now...


Redhat - Bleh
All the Redhat wannabies - double Bleh
debian - ehh...


Gentoo - hell yeah
FBSD - hell yeah

Essentially; Gentoo for all linux specific servers, FBSD for the rest...

IMHO - The installation of Gentoo is a prime example of how it's set apart from the rest. I can't wait for the opportunity to donate some cash to this foundation. Great work!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: OSSwitch.conf Reply with quote

danhickox wrote:

Redhat - Bleh
All the Redhat wannabies - double Bleh
debian - ehh...


Gentoo - hell yeah
FBSD - hell yeah

Could you be more specific? I mean, nothing against Gentoo. But I don't know why you are against Mandrake or openSuse (Red-hat wannabes), or against Debian. I find them very good for some purposes. If you are talking about servers, then ok, I'll agree with you that Mandrake is not the best server distro. But if you are you are running a distro on an ISP server, don't you wanna go for something commercial that offers support?

As for FBSD for server I'll agree you with, triple hell yeah. As for FBSD for the desktop, I'll say 10000000 hell no way, get OSX instead
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Has it really been 2 years? Reply with quote

eno2001 wrote:
Gentoo FORCES you to learn things about the underlying systems. What you learn here you can take to just about any other distro to be able to get under the hood there. Especially helpful when you have multiple flavors to work with.

I not only agree but also confirm. It's the truth. Definitely :-) .
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kicker69101
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have completely stop listening to the, "lets switch to distro X" threads. They are getting annoying. I'm going to keep using gentoo for a good long time.

I did follow the crowd originally when these types of post started. Every time I do it I just come back to gentoo. The underlying knowledge you need to utilize gentoo scares people I know that use other distros. I can't tell you how many times I hear the line, "where did you pick that up?". It usually comes from bending gentoo to my will.
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reup
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

last week, my laptop burned, really, smoke coming out of the fan..... all the story

well, as it was my laptop for work, I needed to get back to work fast, so I install Ubuntu on the new laptop, as I could get back to work in 2 hours instead of the 1 day I needed for gentoo to be setup

well, since, I am just working at going back to gentoo. ubuntu is perfect for everyday use (I am installing 2 ubuntu in my son school) but I feel as if I am back to square one, I cannot even choose which option I want when I install a package (pidgin/gaim has so many protocol installed per default that I cannot find which is crashing, thunderbird as well)

give me gentoo for work, ubuntu for children, windows as toilette paper !

I work for network appliance, and takes care of all EMEA CISCO Filers, all that from my little Gentoo :-) cool no ?

by the way, I am trying to buy a laptop without bloody window pre-installed, do you know how hard it is ?? in the Netherlands, impossible !

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danhickox
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: OSSwitch.conf Reply with quote

batistuta wrote:
danhickox wrote:

Redhat - Bleh
All the Redhat wannabies - double Bleh
debian - ehh...


Gentoo - hell yeah
FBSD - hell yeah

Could you be more specific? I mean, nothing against Gentoo. But I don't know why you are against Mandrake or openSuse (Red-hat wannabes), or against Debian. I find them very good for some purposes. If you are talking about servers, then ok, I'll agree with you that Mandrake is not the best server distro. But if you are you are running a distro on an ISP server, don't you wanna go for something commercial that offers support?

As for FBSD for server I'll agree you with, triple hell yeah. As for FBSD for the desktop, I'll say 10000000 hell no way, get OSX instead


Well to clarify, Honestly I've not had the opportunity to work with mandrake or opensuse; I used suse linux some 5 years ago when I was just starting out and found it horribly confusing... (a cause of my own ignorance at the time for sure) I was trying to be relatively specific with the versions I've worked with. Debian, Fedora, Centos, Redhat...

What is my complaint?
IMO - The init systems are the beginning... I like the fact that Gentoo doesn't add a newly installed app to any specific runlevel or start it up at the end of install... I've seen this with the other distros I'm discussing... They seem to mimic what windows let's an installer do... eh?

Gentoo's implementation of the sysV init system just makes more sense... (Yesterday, I was playing around with options for a voip server setup we could cookie cutter into a product and , dare I say it, installed centos packaged with trixbox, I took a look around and damnit, what the hell are they thinking... Sure when it all wraps around to inittab it might look similar but why, I must say why??? Holding onto the past? I had to run over to my machine open up a term and dive into etc on one of our gentoo machines just to contain myself...

Enabled BBCode. -- desultory
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continued from here
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sundialsvc4
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the Gentoo Foundation is doing a very fine job with this distro, and I am very satisfied with it. Never mind the bit about the paperwork in New Mexico, and don't get too distracted with personality issues: the product is just fine, and that's really the only thing that matters anyhow.

I definitely agree that Gentoo is a valuable ongoing learning-experience. I came to it from Linux From Scratch (LFS), which is another valuable learning-experience. 8O

This is the sort of thing that really makes you pop out that ol' "shit eatin' grin" and mutter under your breath, "Bah! You are no 'Linux expert!' You're just a 'package weenie!' Neener neener pooh pooh!" :D (Well, only after you've had a couple beers, maybe. Or then again, maybe not.)
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batistuta
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
Continued from here

Could it be, that when doing this my post got lost? :roll:
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omnio
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aniruddha wrote:

I installed Debian stable, dumped the box in a corner. I relied on ssh to communicate with it since no monitor or keyboard was attached. One day I started this computer and I couldn't login, it turned out be some kind of booting problem. I had to reconnect to computer to fix this. Furthermore Debian's behavior is at best erratic (on some systems X can lock up, on other it can't connect to the network etc etc). In all these cases Gentoo ran without a hitch. I removed Debian and replaced it with Gentoo and the computer runs great now.

May I ask, is this related to a past state of Debian or to a present one? I mean, was it Sarge or Etch? I'm not defending Debian, I'm just interested in people's impressions and experiences.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

batistuta wrote:
nixnut wrote:
Continued from here

Could it be, that when doing this my post got lost? :roll:

Shouldn't have. Possibly you couldn't post in that thread for a minute because I locked it before splitting it.
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curtis119
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo all the way. I have ubuntu and opensuse installed on partitions of my laptop and I use them from time to time to see what is going on with them. I have to say that ubuntu has gotten very good lately but it still is only i386 and the firefox they bundle with it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS!

I use crossover to install quicktime plugin and on my gentoo partition firefox is rock solid. on ubuntu and opensuse... firefox crashes any time I have flash/quicktime going at the same time. Plus it is sloooooow on ubuntu and suse and locks up if I open more than 20 tabs. On gentoo I can open almost 50 tabs before it slows down.

Not to mention the utter lack of games to choose from in ubuntu and suse. My kids are heavy gamers and gentoo is the only linux I will ever use for a game box. I love being able to install just about any opensource games there are with a simple emerge command (and most proprietary games if you own the cd).
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opensolaris.

I've been using it at work, and am vary happy with it. particularly with it's handling of amd64 as a first-class citizen. this really has been my linux complaint with EVERY distro since the platform became common (gentoo has easily been the best at this).

ZFS is nice.
i have heard good things about dtrace (although i have yet to use it)

I dont know if it will be Nexenta or SXCE snv_80 (when released), but it will be happening.
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IRQsRFun
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is mostly a repeat of what others have said, but I will include my current point of view on Gentoo.

1) The initial install is a annoyingly slow (I did this quite awhile ago), but the install does educate.

2) Ebuilds do not just enable convenient source based installation of packages, they also document the known dependencies that all these packages have. If Ebuilds did not exist, these dependencies would have to be maintained somewhere else and would not likely be up to date as the Ebuilds are. If an Ebuild is wrong, it does not take long for somebody to break the package or their system.

3) Everything is open except for where the user chooses to use close source drivers and other packages.

4) Generally, the community with Gentoo is tolerant of people who are not experts and I am glad of that.

5) The documentation is good, but scattered in a few different places depending on what package(s) are to be installed. The official gentoo documents do not cover everything.

I have only learned about 0.1% of what I need to be fully productive with Gentoo, but it very effectively uses up my free time.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IRQsRFun wrote:
4) Generally, the community with Gentoo is tolerant of people who are not experts and I am glad of that.

5) The documentation is good, but scattered in a few different places depending on what package(s) are to be installed. The official gentoo documents do not cover everything.

I have only learned about 0.1% of what I need to be fully productive with Gentoo, but it very effectively uses up my free time.


I agree 100% to that :)

It takes some time to be able to use Gentoo :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched to NetBSD and I am really happy. FreeBSD also was an alternative.

I wonder why Gentoo doesn't support binary packages, *BSD are great in this regard, decide if you want to compile with options or just install binaries :)
The source code is extremly clear, and the overall structure of it is just superior to Linux (I mean just the Kernel and systools here).
The organization (FreeBSD core, committers, contributers, users) is much better, which mostly is the reason for the point above.

The disadvantage is that it is lacking driver support compared to Linux and that in general Linux is more "Let's-Just-Try-A-New-not-tested-Idea"-friendly which has spawned some great success stories (the more time *BSDs take for such stuff is most likely also a reason why their source is cleaner, and better structured)
Anyway, both are good in their regard, and most OS software runs good on both, but BSD is in s position to Linux, how Linux is to Windows, lack of Games (Quake Wars etc. :D), lack of support, Linux is just bigger, but not better IMHO :P
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Cosby wrote:
The disadvantage is that it is lacking driver support compared to Linux and that in general Linux


Yeah, where is my IPW3945 driver inside FreeBSD...there is no support at least for now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's not a chance that I will be switching distributions. I love Gentoo, as on OS, as a community, and as a learning experience. I wouldn't install Gentoo on a system for any of my friends who want to get started with Linux. For them, I would install PCLinuxOS as it is quite a good starting point. Then gradually I will introduce Gentoo to them. ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalos wrote:
I wouldn't install Gentoo on a system for any of my friends who want to get started with Linux. For them, I would install PCLinuxOS as it is quite a good starting point. Then gradually I will introduce Gentoo to them. ;)


In fact, we don't want to scare or burnout friends with Linux...Gentoo and FreeBSD can be scrary to install and also to learn how thing work.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: The question I am asking myself right now... Reply with quote

I have been using gentoo since 2002 and I have always been very loyal. Lately, however, I have been seriously considering alternatives. I am getting a new laptop next week and trying to decide if I am going to spend the day or two required to install gentoo or go with Fedora 8 which is on my "guest" computer.

Here are some reasons:
- things like compiz and suspend work on Fedora, without hours and hours of pain (I *still* can't suspend working in gentoo and compiz is unusably slow)
- you can watch DVDs without extra hassel (gentoo devs decided that having Totem play DVDs isn't in users' best interest)
- every update of, say, gnome involves hours or days of rebuilding and tracking down errors
- portage (emerge) needs to be overhauled
- I am pretty computer savvy but I can't keep up with all the USE flags, tweaks, conflicting USE flags, etc. to actually make the most of my gentoo system. As a result, despite the extra time commitment, it doesn't feel any faster than Fedora at all.
- Every time I want to do something different (print server, SMB server, etc) it takes hours of time.
- The install process is hell. The graphical installer destroyed half my data last time. No new releases since forever.
- The graphical portage apps are crappy. Yes, they are important.

There are good things about gentoo:
- if you have the time, you can personalize things nicely
- usually you can install bleeding edge software or obscure apps if you are willing to undergo a little pain
- the forums are good
- genkernel is wonderful

So I am in this state right now where for the first in 6 years I am wondering which distro to use. To tell you the truth, I am not seeing a whole lot of reasons to do gentoo again. I think I might try to use Fedora 8 as my primary distro and if I find it really so lacking, I will turn back to gentoo. Maybe there will be another release by then? If I stray from the gentoo flock and return in a few months, I will update this to reflect my change of heart.

In the meantime, I would really love to hear real, practical answers to "Why Gentoo?"
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