| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Dr.Willy
Guru
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 547
Location: NRW, Germany
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| yngwin wrote: | | Hypnos wrote: | | This would likely be moot if a kernel-like organizational model were used. Then, it's not a matter of who is an official dev or not, but who gets automatica pulls or has to submit patches |
Yes, that could be a better model. We'd also need git instead of the current cvs. Again, more manpower seems to be needed to make that migration. |
Soo … you need more manpower to solve the problem that you need more manpower.
I'm afraid, you are doomed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
beandog
Bodhisattva
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 2072
Location: /usa/utah
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr.Willy wrote: | | yngwin wrote: | | Hypnos wrote: | | This would likely be moot if a kernel-like organizational model were used. Then, it's not a matter of who is an official dev or not, but who gets automatica pulls or has to submit patches |
Yes, that could be a better model. We'd also need git instead of the current cvs. Again, more manpower seems to be needed to make that migration. |
Soo … you need more manpower to solve the problem that you need more manpower.
I'm afraid, you are doomed. |
Not really. The concept is still the same - we need volunteers. With recruiters, we can at least look in-house.
_________________
If it ain't broke, tweak it. dvds | blurays | blog | wiki |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hypnos
Advocate
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
Location: Omnipresent
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| beandog wrote: | | Not really. The concept is still the same - we need volunteers. With recruiters, we can at least look in-house. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Gentoo has a corporation-like structure:
council = board of directors
recruiters = human resources
infra = IT
core, arches, ... = departments
But the CEO is ... ? And how can you hold people accountable in such a structure if all you have to hold over their heads is the nuclear option, taking away commit access?
In open source, the currency is reputation. This is why the Linux dev model works so well: everything is about who gets automatic pulls from their trees, and who gets blamed when things break, and all this is completely transparent. There is no structure to maintain -- if your work is crap, you get derided; if it's good, it gets trumpeted.
Of course, you still need someone like Linus who is trusted with the final product. drobbins is trying, but so far funtoo is far from critical mass ...
_________________
Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr.Willy
Guru
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 547
Location: NRW, Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| beandog wrote: | | Dr.Willy wrote: | | yngwin wrote: | | Hypnos wrote: | | This would likely be moot if a kernel-like organizational model were used. Then, it's not a matter of who is an official dev or not, but who gets automatica pulls or has to submit patches |
Yes, that could be a better model. We'd also need git instead of the current cvs. Again, more manpower seems to be needed to make that migration. |
Soo … you need more manpower to solve the problem that you need more manpower.
I'm afraid, you are doomed. |
Not really. The concept is still the same - we need volunteers. With recruiters, we can at least look in-house. |
Ok, volunteers it is. And we are still talking about the migration to git.
So the gentoo devs would do their usual work, bumping ebuilds, fixing bugs and thelike and then a volunteer from the community steps up to migrate all of gentoos stuff to git.
*thinks*
No, that doesn't work.
I know how to write an ebuild for something and I guess I could fix a bug or two. But how on earth is someone from "outside" supposed to migrate all your sources? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kernelOfTruth
Watchman
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 6111
Location: Vienna, Austria; Germany; hello world :)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saellaven
l33t
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 646
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kernelOfTruth wrote: |
going from there: Donnie Berkholz (and other ones still need to come into my mind) are comparable to that, no ? |
Not for nothing, but I haven't seen Donnie show up on planet in ages. In fact, looking, his last post was 4 months ago. Is he even around anymore? Gentoo doesn't really seem to have any type of executive, just a bunch of legislative bureaucrats. Those that are charged with carrying things out with executive type roles (like the recruiters) seem to be AWOL too based on the posts here.
All talk and no action seems to be leading to a lot of the frustration for everyone. To the devs posting, has any of this conversation been taken to the mailing lists or IRC, or is this discussion just more talk that isn't going to change anything?
_________________
Ryzen 3700X, Asus Prime X570-Pro, 64 GB DDR4 3200, GeForce GTX 1660 Super
openrc-0.17, ~vanilla-sources, ~nvidia-drivers, ~gcc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
!equilibrium
Bodhisattva
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 2109
Location: MI/BG/LC
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saellaven wrote: | | All talk and no action seems to be leading to a lot of the frustration for everyone. To the devs posting, has any of this conversation been taken to the mailing lists or IRC, or is this discussion just more talk that isn't going to change anything? |
this thread will doesn't going to change anything, like the old Diego Pettenò's discussions in ML/IRC of the past (they are three years old now) and the recent Diego's rants: they are just talks; QA, devrel and the Council are, as usual, just ignoring the problems (as reported by other gentoo devels).
_________________
Arch Tester for Gentoo/FreeBSD
Equilibrium's Universe
all my contents are released under the Creative Commons Licence by-nc-nd 2.5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr.Willy
Guru
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 547
Location: NRW, Germany
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| q.e.d.? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saellaven
l33t
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 646
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| !equilibrium wrote: | | saellaven wrote: | | All talk and no action seems to be leading to a lot of the frustration for everyone. To the devs posting, has any of this conversation been taken to the mailing lists or IRC, or is this discussion just more talk that isn't going to change anything? |
this thread will doesn't going to change anything, like the old Diego Pettenò's discussions in ML/IRC of the past (they are three years old now) and the recent Diego's rants: they are just talks; QA, devrel and the Council are, as usual, just ignoring the problems (as reported by other gentoo devels). |
After a week of no further discussion, I guess the thought of reforming the gentoo bureaucracy to make things less burdensome died like most everything else does in the gentoo bureaucracy... and once again, I'm reminded of why I (and others) have no desire to become a part of that system.
But hey, according to the agenda posted on gentoo-council, at least at this week's council meeting, they discussed bringing up a discussion on changing metadata.xml and whether or not the council should be able to vote by mail. As I said, the bureaucracy exists for bureaucracy's sake. It used to be that having meetings about having meetings was a tongue in cheek joke.
_________________
Ryzen 3700X, Asus Prime X570-Pro, 64 GB DDR4 3200, GeForce GTX 1660 Super
openrc-0.17, ~vanilla-sources, ~nvidia-drivers, ~gcc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aidanjt
Veteran
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Rep. of Ireland
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Actually from looking at recent council mood, it looks like they have it in mind to pile on more bureaucracy to save Gentoo. 
_________________
| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saellaven
l33t
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 646
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Another week and we have the announcement that yngwin has to scale back or risk burning out. But hey, we finally got a news item about the council meeting more than a week ago where they discussed having further discussions on metadata.xml.
I'm starting to find it a bit disheartening... Nothing of significance ever seems to get discussed by the council. Nothing is ever going to change, is it?
BTW - thanks for your work over the years yngwin. I know you aren't quitting entirely, but you should know that your work does matter to people.
_________________
Ryzen 3700X, Asus Prime X570-Pro, 64 GB DDR4 3200, GeForce GTX 1660 Super
openrc-0.17, ~vanilla-sources, ~nvidia-drivers, ~gcc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yngwin
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saellaven wrote: | | BTW - thanks for your work over the years yngwin. I know you aren't quitting entirely, but you should know that your work does matter to people. |
Thank you very much, that is always good to hear. But for the greater part I will remain as active as ever, maintaining Qt and related packages. I handed over LXDE to one of the other developers, and withdrew myself from other herds where I would do occasional maintenance work. Mostly to cut back on the distractions and the danger to spread myself too thin. I found that when you get involved in too many things, you can never do enough, you are eternally catching up. And that is exactly what drains energy and motivation. For now I just concentrate on Qt and a few select other packages, and trying to do that well. And I hope to free enough time to delve into programming and build some new applications.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| saellaven wrote: | | BTW - thanks for your work over the years yngwin. I know you aren't quitting entirely, but you should know that your work does matter to people. |
Indeed, you did a awesome work in the past and I'm sure that in the futur you will as usual. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kraylus
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 648
Location: ft.worth.tx
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and this is why i stopped using gentoo so many years ago. i can see some things never change. drobbins would be ashamed.
_________________
I used gentoo BEFORE it was cool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SamuliSuominen
Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 2133
Location: Finland
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kraylus wrote: | | and this is why i stopped using gentoo so many years ago. i can see some things never change. drobbins would be ashamed. |
If your contributions was the same class as your statements, I bet nobody will miss you.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| No comment on that... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zeerak
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Aalborg, Denmark
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know it probably wouldn't be considered good sport, but there are enough users and devs that are disgruntled with the way things are, and it seems like the council isn't doing much. Couldn't an idea be to join a meeting and take up things that should be taken up? Or perhaps arrange a day (in the very near future) where users and devs can list all of the things that they feel need to be addressed and start getting them addressed?
_________________
Einstein was a great man, but he got one thing wrong with his theory of relativity. E= MC hammer. As far as logic goes, this is flawed, but as a show of wit, you can't touch this |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Gentoo Chat
