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smlg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:22 am    Post subject: How to install Gentoo 10.1 LiveDVD? Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm a Gentoo newbie although I have been using those newbie-friendly distros like Ubuntu, Mandriva, Linuxmint, Mepis among others. Then I stumbled upon Sabayon which I like because it is Gentoo-based although I really prefer a pure-bred Gentoo system.

I downloaded the Gentoo 10.1 LiveDVD thinking that it was installable... is it?

What is the fastest & easiest way for installing Gentoo? Is there a shortcut?

Another question, what Gentoo-based Distro is the most compatible to Gentoo?

I've seen quite a number on Distrowatch like:

Pentoo
Sabayon
Toorox
VLOS
Calculate Linux

And I was wondering if there was a short-cut (sorry but I know it is cheating) to install a Pure Gentoo system by going through the Gentoo-based distros. I was thinking this path because I have seen some ArchLinux newbies go through the path of Chakra Linux to be able to get a pure Archlinux system by uninstalling the Chakra stuff.

Please help... I love Gentoo.
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cach0rr0
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

basically the shortcut you're looking for is an installer - there isn't one (well, you the human ARE the installer!)

the gentoo installation process requires you to manually partition, make file systems, etc, then unpack the stage and portage which basically end up allowing you to create your own distribution of sorts, with only the dependencies you choose, compiled only with the optimizations you choose, only for the architecture you choose.

an installer would be completely counter to this

getting a basic install going, where you have a bootable system, should take you from 30 minutes to 1 hour if you go through the handbook step by step. The handbook is here - http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/ - this should walk you step by step through doing a basic minimal install. Some have the steps memorized, so it's even quicker. Some have trouble getting an optimized or even functional kernel built, and that's normally the most difficult time consuming part, so if you're really struggling with getting a kernel built you may well be one of those horror stories where it takes multiple days.

a number of users, devs, and admins, have contributed a great amount in facilitating the kernel configuration as much as possible. There is pappy's guide (see link in sig), Linux SEA, and then certain admins/devs who seem to never sleep :P

Once you have the base system going, it's a matter of deciding what you want installed, window shopping for software, etc

at any rate, for gentoo to make shortcuts, it would have to make assumptions about what you want on your system - which would again be contrary to the idea of having a system 100% optimized specifically to your needs from the ground up. The gentoo install process is all done by you, and even the tools provided make minimal assumptions about what YOU want. If you want assumptions and hence the shortcut, something like a sabayon or arch would be more appropriate.

But alas the handbook is there, and if you go through it step by step, 30 mins to 1hr. If you want X, a bit longer as there's heaps to compile.
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throdon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as a longer than you Sabayon user(2.5years) I can tell you have not read enough to be ready for Gentoo, you could surprise me but I think it best to let you know now that you need to read a shitload more than reviews to
Quote:
Please help... I love Gentoo.
no you don't you love the reviews and what others have achieved yet do not take into account the hours sometimes days it takes of work to get there. If you love gentoo so much, do gentoo and your self a favor and learn how to use a gentoo based distro before you come here and express your love of gentoo.

Gentoo is like drugs , once it's in you. you can't get it out of you.

right now, from your original post it sounds like you are romanticizing something that you have no Idea about.

and if this pisses you off , come flame me on the Sabayon forum, if you can find me there. it's a test lets see if you pass, I love gentoo, I want it easy. get to work and and see how easy it is.
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ryan221
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you definately don't want to take shortcuts when installing gentoo.

you'll have no clue what to do the first time something breaks nor will you have any clue how to maintain your system

i equate binary distros and stuff to driving a car. Anyone can learn it in a short time and "drive" the car. There's nothing wrong with that if it is what you prefer

to use gentoo you have to be like an auto mechanic , you not only have to know how to drive it , but you also have to learn about all the stuff under the hood, what it does, and how to fix it when it's broken.

if you read and follow the handbook, it's not that hard to install gentoo most of the time (provided it's not on some exotic hardware or something). it just takes some time and the will to learn.

the live dvd it is great for installing gentoo, just use ctrl+alt+F1 after it loads , this puts you in the terminal , the just do

passwd

and change the root password to something you will remember , then just ctrl+alt+F7 to get back to the live dvd desktop. now you can open a root terminal ( or regular terminal and use su ) and just follow the handbook from there.

this way you will have a working desktop while installing so you can surf the web , listen to music, play games, etc while stuff is compiling , it also is alot easier if you have a problem , you can easily check the gentoo website documentation or come here for help

as long as you follow the handbook like it says , most people on the forums will be willing to help with you with problems

if you just want to "cheat" and not learn anything , no body's going to want to help you

(of course for a really gentoo-like experience , download the min CD and do it all from the command line and links web browser)

ps: for anyone who's interested , there is talk on funtoo of offering binary packages for a quick install , but as they just started discussing it , i would imagine it's going to be awhile.
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smlg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

throdon wrote:
as a longer than you Sabayon user(2.5years) I can tell you have not read enough to be ready for Gentoo, you could surprise me but I think it best to let you know now that you need to read a shitload more than reviews to
Quote:
Please help... I love Gentoo.
no you don't you love the reviews and what others have achieved yet do not take into account the hours sometimes days it takes of work to get there. If you love gentoo so much, do gentoo and your self a favor and learn how to use a gentoo based distro before you come here and express your love of gentoo.

Gentoo is like drugs , once it's in you. you can't get it out of you.

right now, from your original post it sounds like you are romanticizing something that you have no Idea about.

and if this pisses you off , come flame me on the Sabayon forum, if you can find me there. it's a test lets see if you pass, I love gentoo, I want it easy. get to work and and see how easy it is.


throdon,

it seems that you have an insecurity problem... "as a longer than you Sabayon user (2.5 years).." who cares if you are a longer than me Sabayon user... does 2.5 years vs 5 years vs 1 year really matter... gosh!

i newbie asks for help and you push that newbie down.

how do you know i do not love gentoo? are you me? can you read my mind? can you feel what i feel? what an idiot!!!

why do i have to flame you on the sabayon forum? i posted here and not on the sabayon forum didn't I?

please.... get a grip on reality... you are no psychic... you are no mind-reader... you are no empath... SO PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS AND THOUGHTS INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S MOUTHS!

if you do not have something nice to say... please do not say it. you obviously lack manners!
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PeggySue
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi smig,

I'm new to Gentoo having used Ubuntu for a few years. I spent the last few weeks building Gentoo and I have to say I have learnt more about Linux in the last few weeks than in the last few years. I have built my system with Gnome and superficially it looks a lot like Ubuntu which also uses a Gnome desktop.

If you want to learn about Linux and you have the time and commitment then I wish you well but do be prepared for some serious study work.

Don't be put off by harsh words; just remember we all have different ways of expressing ourselves. If you read the posts again you will know who to follow. I found the support to be first class; the documentation is very good but it makes a lot more sense when you have finished than it does when you are doing the install.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeggySue wrote:
the documentation is very good but it makes a lot more sense when you have finished than it does when you are doing the install.
:D
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throdon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok sorry I am pretty insecure. I have tried to take every easy short cut there was to Gentoo. All the way from Gentoo 2008 live DVD/CD to using Knoppix or any other live CD to install Gentoo. There is actually a page that spells it out for you. I thought it was a short cut to the Glories of Gentoo. I FAILED EVERY TIME. I just recently tried to install using the minimal Gentoo CD w/ the handbook and was almost to where I had X installed it took me a week and a half. The only reason I could not go any farther is I need my laptop up and running now not next week or next month. So this morning I started a new Gentoo install on my desktop w/ the minimal CD and I am configuring the kernel as I type this. I am understanding more and more as this is the second official time I am through it( I am also taking notes((throdon's personal handbook)) and using a shitload of book marks and references I have found along the way to augment the handbook) and it is getting more understandable. there is no easy button and the frustration/fail level with Gentoo is very high.

sorry I miss understood/was a dick and I wish you good luck! Don't hate Gentoo forums because of dicks like me.
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallo, after a few days to read a lot of explainetions to install gentoo, i think I leave this distro. Nowere I read about the install. A simply install of course. I downloaded 8gig of cd, dvd live or not, I never be able to install something of gentoo. It is why a lot of people used Ubuntu. Sry about that.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urakill wrote:
Hallo, after a few days to read a lot of explainetions to install gentoo, i think I leave this distro. Nowere I read about the install. A simply install of course. I downloaded 8gig of cd, dvd live or not, I never be able to install something of gentoo. It is why a lot of people used Ubuntu. Sry about that.


Hi there,

With regrads to installation documentation, the one main document for installation (the gentoo handbook) describes only what is needed to get a minimal system functioning for you.

Because Gentoo does not make any assumptions with regards to what the user wishes to do beyond that minimal environment, the documentation is split off into several different detailed pieces.

For example, if I am building a server, the handbook is relevant to me, but a configuration guide for Xorg or Gnome or KDE is not relevant to me.
If I am building a desktop, the handbook is still relevant to me, but a configuration guide for Postfix, MySQL, or Apache, is not needed.

Gentoo does not make decisions *for* you and assume you need one package or another, beyond the minimal installation that you get going through the handbook.

Unlike many of the other distros, that provide many packages for you installed already by default, Gentoo does not. It provides you the tools you need to basically build your own custom distribution.

For users of other distros who decide that some of the assumptions made during their distro's install were wrong, and that they want to remove bloat they do not need or want, it is very painful in most cases.

This is an area where Gentoo has an advantage, but if this is not something you care about, and you want a pre-defined set of installed packages, binary distros will suit you better.

With Gentoo you have to do a bit of planning and decision making with regards to just what you want on your system, because you will have ONLY what you decide to install (well, you don't absolutely HAVE to, but since this is a source based distro, installing packages takes time, so changing your mind later takes a lot of time)

If you have decided you plan to use your gentoo installation as a Desktop, you want X and a desktop environment/window manager - so after the minimal install is completed, you should next look at the X documentation, as well the documentation for your DE/WM of choice. For example:

X - http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml

Got X working? Cool! Now, do you want KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, Enlightenment, which?

KDE - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml
Gnome - http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gnome-config.xml
Fluxbox - http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/fluxbox-config.xml
E17 - http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/E17

The doc is all broken up into separate pieces, which makes sense for a distro where you decide on every little piece that is installed.

And if you get stuck or have questions on the documentation? Hop on the forums! Read the FAQ stuff, and once you have an idea of what the typical person here will assume you have already read and tried, ask a question!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cach0rr0 wrote:
And if you get stuck or have questions on the documentation? Hop on the forums! Read the FAQ stuff, and once you have an idea of what the typical person here will assume you have already read and tried, ask a question!


In fact, just ask for help and we will be able to help you handle your Gentoo installation.
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, thx for the fast reply :lol: . I will just install a gentoo desktop x64. The first ting I will need to now is, what for download I will need. I downloaded the live dvd 10.0 but they not have a installer, never mind. I downloaded the installer but they dont have the stage3 tarball. Now i will download the installer i686. I guest that all needed stuff are present. I hope for x64 also. I will try it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urakill,

Since you have the 10.0 DVD, use it as a tool to install Gentoo in the normal way.
It will provide you a GUI while you install.

Nothing from the install media you choose ends up in your install - it only provides tools to allow you to do the install.
You will need the amd64 stage 3 tarball and the current portage snapshot whail you follow the Gentoo Handbook choose the amd64 version.

Your CD needs to be 64 bit too to accomplish a 64 bit install. 32 bit kernels cannot run 64 bit code.
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddychosoSeagoon, thx. I forgot to tell that i am running a intel E8400. That's why I don't tried the amd64. Maybe I'm wrong? :oops:
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I am wrong. AMD64 will run with a amd64 or em64T. EM64T is a intel! Wel, wel wel, why gentoo call this fil only amd64? Ok I try, and thx again to NeddychosoSeagoon. :lol:
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a error. "Failed to start the X server..." I take a look at the forum if I can resolve this error.
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was finally able to install Gentoo. After this error I do a Xorg config. 1. Xorg -configure. 2. cp //xorg.conf.new //xorg.conf. 3. gdm. So it was starting the X server. For info I do the install with the livecd-amd64-installer-2008.0-r1.iso.
[/url] :D :D
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urakill,

When AMD launched the 64 bit Opteron CPU, that ran 32 bit code natively, it killed the Intel Itainum, which was Intels non compatible 64 bit CPU.
It needed a software emulator to run all the 32 bit code in existance, which made it slower than even a mid range 32 bit CPU.

Intel licenced the AND design and called it EM64-T, so modern Intel CPUs are AMD64 compatibles. Thats why you need the AMD64 install and not the IA64, whichis for the Itainum.

I hope you didn't use the binary installer on the 2008-r1.ISO. That gives you a Gentoo almost two years old and almost impossible to update to todays Gentoo.
Well, its a wonderful learning opportunity to do the update but a reinstall with the amd64-stage3 is faster.
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I attempt 3 times to install gentoo. I used amd64. Gentoo dont boot properly. I have a lot of errors. I fix a lot but now I am a little bit tired.All this work to just install gentoo. I will try Sabayon amd64 now. Thanks a lot for you help and I will try gentoo anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sabayon is not your answer, you should retry to install a Gentoo box, since Sabayon it's only a right click install method.
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Urakill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing, I agree with you. But I installed Sabayon in 15mins. I dont have any problems. I have tried this to see if Gentoo is faster vs Ubuntu. I dont know if it's make a difference. It's look very nice, but it must stable also. Ok I try now to install Gentoo. :?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the speed thing, there is 2 things that you need to check, it's your cflags,cxxflags and also your Use Flags.

With that, you can boost your performance a lot.

Good luck :P
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys....

Thank you for the replies and advise. I've tried to install using the Gentoo Handbook to no avail. My skill-level is not up-to-par for the easy installation of Gentoo.

I will just try those Gentoo-based Distros like:

Sabayon (again)
VLOS
Calculate Linux
Toorox

until i master the installation.

how newbies like me would wish for a "snap-shot" installable livecd with a working desktop environment to get things going.

Installing Gentoo requires a higher skill-level than installing Archlinux in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smlg, as I said in my second post on this thread. I am sorry and was wrong.

Do you now understand, what I meant about the hard work. I have run through the install 4 more times since my post from the other day. I am getting better and more comfortable. but I am still making mistakes. I still haven't achieved X but I am not worried about that. it might not get easier but it does get more comfortable the more you run through it.

and you only have 3 posts. ask questions on the forums. I am here posting as throdon so that people can see that I had a change of attitude. I will not be an asshole anymore. that is my punishment, I could of change who I was on the forum, but I must clear my name.

so keep reading and post questions on the forum, the only way you can confirm what you learn is by asking if you understand correctly.

Good luck, and if you go to sabayon or any other distro. just think of it as training wheels for when you are ready to tackle Gentoo again.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

throdon,

Its very hard to mess up a gentoo install so the only thing to do is reinstall.
I can only thing of a few ways. You should not start over when something does not work - thats a bad habit you learned from another operating system.

Post on the forums - tell us whet you did, what actually happened, what you expected to happen and any error messages (verbatim) you saw.
That will be enough to get someone started diagnosing you problem. We will ask for more information if its needed.
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