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How alive/dead is Gentoo for you? (Only vote, if you use Gentoo for at least one year.)
Even better than ever
42%
 42%  [ 98 ]
Hasn’t changed much
23%
 23%  [ 54 ]
Could be better
24%
 24%  [ 55 ]
In bad shape, there’s not much left
9%
 9%  [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 228

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randy_waterhouse
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: I'M DONE - 4 YEARS of Gentoo is ENOUGH. Reply with quote

I quit.

I've been an enthusiastic supporter of Gentoo since I found it. I've been on Gentoo for at least 4 years, on 4 or 5 different boxen. I've converted 3-4 other users from both Windows & Linux.

I'm f***ing done. I quit. I've had it.

I'm sick of packages not working, doing a forums search, and finding that 72 other users have had the same problem since 2003, none of the 34 threads are marked "SOLVED" (even though a few of them WERE), and that the package is marked stable but doesn't have any of the fixes incorporated. Oh - and I just LOVE when several of the Lord and Masters of the package, in bugzilla, get all snarky about how it's actually User Error (recently one guy said "well, we DID put a note in the build-script" and insulted the people posting the error. Look - this ain't exactly your Gramma's OS -- but I'm a former programmer and expert-witness on computer security -- and I don't read build-script messages -- I can't even catch them as they scroll buy, you punk-ass 23-year-old no-social-skills Asperger's Syndrome supercilious bastard! (humor intended, albeit black humor).)

Gentoo is NOT ready for prime time. Way too many packages are marked stable that aren't. Way too many packages that are easily compilable from source, or can be had with other distros, are NOT marked stable, for way too long. Package maintainers don't. Solutions in forums are not marked SOLVED. Bugzilla posts aren't followed up for months, and are often followed-up with snarky comments, as above, that it's not really their fault -- "just use the patch that was posted in another bug thread, you dope!", or similar.

---

I tried to emerge vlnx today. It's not downloadable - the host URL doesn't resolve. This has been a problem for a while. Yet - it's marked stable -- even though the Bugzilla entries EXPLICITLY talk about how it's NOT DOWNLOADABLE - and DON'T RESOLVE IT! WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!

That's it. I don't have time to maintain my distro like this. EVEN WINDOWS ISN'T THAT DIFFICULT - and I f***ing hate Windows.

(Below is the post I started to make to bugzilla):

Can someone tell me why this is marked as stable?

It's not fixed. evendata.net does NOT resolve.

I'm not a newbie, but I'm not an expert. Let me tell you, though - this kind of stupid, avoidable, hassle / lack of follow-up from the package maintainers (which I encounter OVER and OVER again using Gentoo) is why I'm very close to ditching it and going to Ubuntu or back to Windows after 4+ years on Gentoo.

(NO, it is NOT my responsibility to fix it or help out -- if it were, I'd BE a maintainer. I don't have the expertise. (I've posted fixes to the forums, and marked them "SOLVED" - which is more than many whiny users do.) Gentoo is supposed to work. Packages marked stable should be F***ing FETCHABLE, especially after months of clear notice. If the package maintainers can't at LEAST respond, within 4-5 months, to a package people can't F***ing DOWNLOAD -- jeezus, at least mask it or some such! -- this distro model (that is, Gentoo) just doesn't work.

And I'm sick of it. Gentoo simply takes too much goddamn research for even a technical (but non-Gentoo/Linux-guru) user to deal with, too often.

As I type this -- f*** it. I'm done with Gentoo. I'll take the time, but I'm done. I've wasted too much time fixing my f***ing OS instead of USING it, with too many dropped-plates and snarky snide "well, it's user error -- we posted a build message, you stupid newbie" by too many half-committed, Asperger's-Syndrome social-skill-missing package maintainers.

Blast me - fine. I'm 40, I've been a professional programmer and computer security expert witness. I'm not a deep-geek, but I'm not your grandma. Gentoo should work WAY better for me than it does, with FAR less troubleshooting. The model is busted.

Ubuntu, here I come.
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Aries-Belgium
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodbye and good luck with Ubuntu!

Pff, I'm getting sick of these threads :roll:
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Last edited by Aries-Belgium on Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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Valkura
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm. If I got what he said correctly, ebuilds need to be of better quality.

Some of these are good to read, to show why some try it for a while and REALLY don't like it (not just "It's not what I'm used to whaaaaaaa").
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CoffeeBuzz
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to see you go.

I hope the new user-relations group will catch things like this (i.e. disgruntled users) and pave a path for issues to get resolved (and make users happier!).

G'luck with your endevours and if I might suggest a distro, try Arch! Simplicity of slackware with bleeding edgeness of Gentoo. Toss in a great package management system, a user repository (yes, I know sunrise is on the up and up), binary packages and voila. Nice little distro with a rapidly growing community.

It can be a "breath of fresh air" after dealing with Gentoo issues (mind you, I use an unstable profile so problems arise often and theyre expected).
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sugar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you come crawling back (as you will!), remember to flame your new distro as you go. We need the PR.
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curtis119
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
When you come crawling back (as you will!), remember to flame your new distro as you go. We need the PR.


Seconded.
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nom de plume
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow! who would take the time to type all of that... :?
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mannygentoo
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: I'M DONE - 4 YEARS of Gentoo is ENOUGH. Reply with quote

randy_waterhouse wrote:
Ubuntu, here I come.

May i suggest you try Slackware or Arch instead? Even FreeBSD (if you don't care compiling but 99% working programs)
This suggestion is based on the fact that you say you're no newcomer, (nothing against ubuntu) and i think you'd be happier, and i'm also close to 40 :wink:
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Ian
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno...if I was pissed off I would just leave and not say goodbye.

I don't run Gentoo on a computer that I *need*. Sure, it's a computer I use daily, but it's also a computer for fooling around with, there's absolutely nothing I have on it that is "mission critical", so when it goes down, eh, gives me something to play around with for the next week. I suppose if anything I should thank the developers for giving me something to do in my spare time!
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r00723r0
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nom de plume wrote:
wow! who would take the time to type all of that... :?


An educated person who is willing to help, albeit while pissed off.
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xPAGANx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After four years you have one post...
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codergeek42
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"To each, his own" as the saying goes.

I wish you well with whatever distro you may choose.

(As an aside, I will heavily recommend Fedora. :D)
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Old School
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xPAGANx wrote:
After four years you have one post...

Yeah, that was my first thought.
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Gergan Penkov
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there some sort of pandemonium in the Foren DB or simply someone from the admins are playing tricks on us:
***This is his first post***, he has registered himself 3 years ago and now posts for the first time, remembering the password for all this time... or intentionally creating a dupe account to post this now :)
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96140
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I award the original poster 8 million troll points. Really, this thread should be moved to the dustbin.
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alistair
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

menelmacar wrote:
xPAGANx wrote:
After four years you have one post...

Yeah, that was my first thought.


Didn't he say in his post that he marked previous post he had made as '[SOVLED]'?? :?

[edit]
Also what is vinx? I can't seem to find it in portage
[/edit]
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Gergan Penkov
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the bug to which he refers
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Headrush
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

menelmacar wrote:
xPAGANx wrote:
After four years you have one post...

Yeah, that was my first thought.

I had the exact same idea without even reading the post.

randy_waterhouse wrote:
Blast me - fine. I'm 40, I've been a professional programmer and computer security expert witness.

I hope as a professional and security expert you handle issues better than that expletive laded dribble you posted.

A simple, "some things aren't updated enough for me and I need to spend less time on fixing these packages" would have been sufficient. No need for the attitude.

Due to the shear number of packages in portage, from time to time some ebuilds are not going to be as updated as all users would like. Unfortunately due to the number of developers working on Gentoo, the issues of most concern to the developers and the majority of users are going to be the issues addressed first. A better approach would have been to look/ask for more help in the forums. There are plenty of us that would help and maybe even take up effort. (I missed any requests from you.)

Additionally, if the package is available for other distros, you could generally always install it on Gentoo also. Source tarballs, RPMs, etc can all still be used with Gentoo. (Sometimes they don't work, but usually apps like the vlnx are self contained and work fairly well. eg no shared library problems.)

I haven't experienced the attitude you have mentioned with developers, but I don't think it is Gentoo specific. You're gonna find developers a little on edge from any distro and expect to always have some idiots in the forums from any distro. Just imagine being a developer working on any project for free and than getting attitude from users like in your post demanding this and that.

Gentoo isn't for everyone and good luck with Ubuntu.


Last edited by Headrush on Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:22 am; edited 3 times in total
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sugar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gergan Penkov wrote:
the bug to which he refers


lol
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Q-collective
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear randy_waterhouse: we really, really don't care.
Kthxbai
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Headrush
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q-collective wrote:
Dear randy_waterhouse: we really, really don't care.
Kthxbai

Now, now Q-collective, think of your user representative nomination. :wink:
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curtis119
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headrush wrote:
Q-collective wrote:
Dear randy_waterhouse: we really, really don't care.
Kthxbai

Now, now Q-collective, think of your user representative nomination.


Now, now Headrush, a good user rep also has a sense of humour. :lol:
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Headrush
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis119 wrote:
Headrush wrote:
Q-collective wrote:
Dear randy_waterhouse: we really, really don't care.
Kthxbai

Now, now Q-collective, think of your user representative nomination.


Now, now Headrush, a good user rep also has a sense of humour. :lol:

Of course I was joking. Unfortunately I think the humor some of us veterans share gets by a lot of new comers. :)
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think4urs11
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: I'M DONE - 4 YEARS of Gentoo is ENOUGH. Reply with quote

randy_waterhouse wrote:
... I've posted fixes to the forums, and marked them "SOLVED" - which is more than many whiny users do...

hmm so now thats interesting when talking about a guy with a postcount of 1, isn't it?
Plus the little interesting detail that i can very well fetch the vlnx sources without the slightest issue, but hey.... :twisted:
Maybe one should check it's dns servers or alike...
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petrjanda
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

menelmacar wrote:
xPAGANx wrote:
After four years you have one post...

Yeah, that was my first thought.

Some people don't post on forums. Gentoo has probably a few thousands of users that never spent more than 10 minutes in here. Nothing wrong with that.

However,
I do agree with the poster on a number of things, hence why I left Gentoo and have been happily using/and contributing to DragonFly BSD for 6 months now.
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