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eyoung100
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Posts: 1406

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: The mistake that is Sabayon 5.0 Reply with quote

OK, OK, I admit I am a power user, but I'm a sucker for eye-candy.
Screenshot Gallery

With that in mind, I decided to give Sabayon 5's GNOME edition a try. I took a perfectly running Gentoo install, and wiped it out for Sabayon's purposes. I figured if I didn't lke it I could get back to a base Gentoo and recustomize it. I'm in the process of doing that now, but I still need a little help. To start I removed the source line from /etc/make.conf, along with changing ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 and then:
Code:
layman -d sabayon
Second, I ran
Code:
emerge -uaDvN world
Can someone tell me why emerge still wants to use packages from the overlay I deleted and I thought /usr/local/portage would force the portage tree to normalize, but I was wrong? Why is my emerge output:
Code:
category/package-name use-flags 0
---
category/package-name use-flags 0
Local Overlays
/usr/local/portage
[0] Unknown download location/overlay
[?] Unable to locate original

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Last edited by eyoung100 on Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Elleni
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Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did you an emerge --depclean prior to update world (pardon me if the question is too banal)
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, after that you should at least run this :

Code:

# revdep-rebuild -i
# emerge -auDNv world

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Ric95
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Alberta Can.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just switched to Gentoo from Sabayon 4.2, for an important reason.
WORLD. ( /var/lib/portage/world )
Sabayon is built with the entropy package manager, that was designed to be compatible with portage. Not such a bad idea ( althogh a portage repository full of bins would have been better). But entropy/equo uses the world file differently, it lists every package installed!. All dependencies and libs are in there, some with version numbers. My MCE lite install on partition 2 has a world file with 1985 lines! Entropy rewrites world when updating, but portage just looks at that and tries to reproduce whats already there.
You just can't update it with portage ( well I can't anyhow...) . You can build a nice kernel for it, install power hungry packages with custom cflags, but the only practicle way I ever found to update SL was with equo/entropy. If you are really determined to convert it, you'll need to re-write world, and just list the packages you explicitly want then let portage calculate dependencies as it was designed to.
Here is my gentoo world for an example: ( even this has some things not needed!)
Code:
app-admin/eselect
app-admin/superadduser
app-admin/syslog-ng
app-arch/xarchiver
app-cdr/xfburn
app-editors/mousepad
app-office/openoffice-bin
app-portage/gentoolkit
app-text/wgetpaste
app-text/xpdf
mail-client/claws-mail
mail-client/claws-mail-gtkhtml
media-gfx/blender
media-gfx/ristretto
media-libs/alsa-lib
media-libs/alsa-oss
media-libs/gstreamer
media-libs/xine-lib
media-plugins/gst-plugins-alsa
media-sound/alsa-headers
media-sound/alsa-tools
media-sound/alsa-utils
media-sound/alsamixergui
media-video/ffmpeg
media-video/mplayer
media-video/nvidia-settings
media-video/vlc
media-video/xfmedia
media-video/xine-ui
net-misc/dhcpcd
net-p2p/transmission
net-print/cups
net-print/gtklp
net-print/gutenprint
net-print/xfprint
sys-apps/dbus
sys-apps/hal
sys-fs/reiserfsprogs
sys-kernel/genkernel
sys-kernel/gentoo-sources
sys-kernel/gentoo-sources:2.6.30-r4
sys-kernel/zen-sources
sys-power/pm-utils
sys-process/vixie-cron
virtual/alsa
www-client/mozilla-firefox
www-plugins/adobe-flash
x11-apps/xdm
x11-base/xorg-server
x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers
x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev
x11-misc/slim
x11-terms/terminal
xfce-base/xfce4-meta
xfce-extra/thunar-volman
xfce-extra/xfce4-cpugraph-plugin
xfce-extra/xfce4-mixer
xfce-extra/xfce4-power-manager
xfce-extra/xfce4-taskmanager

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totedati
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: The mistake that is Sabayon 5.0 Reply with quote

eyoung100 wrote:
OK, OK, I admit I am a power user, but I'm a sucker for eye-candy.
Screenshot Gallery

With that in mind, I decided to give Sabayon 5's GNOME edition a try. I took a perfectly running Gentoo install, and wiped it out for Sabayon's purposes. I figured if I didn't lke it I could get back to a base Gentoo and recustomize it. I'm in the process of doing that now, but I still need a little help. To start I removed the source line from /etc/make.conf, along with changing ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 and then:
Code:
layman -d sabayon
Second, I ran
Code:
emerge -uaDvN world
Can someone tell me why emerge still wants to use packages from the overlay I deleted and I thought /usr/local/portage would force the portage tree to normalize, but I was wrong? Why is my emerge output:
Code:
category/package-name use-flags 0
---
category/package-name use-flags 0
Local Overlays
/usr/local/portage
[0] Unknown download location/overlay
[?] Unable to locate original


hummm ... a poweruser who don't understand what means a
Code:
emerge -uaDvN world
to an already compiled, with heavy custom tweaks, binary distribution?

hummm ...

a friendly advice ... if very quick after a fresh install you fell an urge to do an
Code:
emerge -uaDvN world
then don't use sabayon linux ... use gentoo! sabayon linux is not gentoo ... is a binary distribution! not an source based metadistribution!

is based on gentoo like is ubuntu standing on debian shoulders ... but if you want to rebuild something, with custom flags, in sabayon like a new gnome or a new kde, the you should use entropy infrastructure ... only for small and unimportant programs, unavailable in entropy binary database, can be used portage as a quick solution ... but definitely NOT FOR AN emerge world!

as you can see from here:
Code:
equo --verbose help

   ~ Sabayon Linux ~    Entropy Package Manager - (C) 2009

  Basic Options

        --help          this output
        --version       print version
        --nocolor       disable colorized output

  Application Options

        update          update configured repositories
                --force         force sync regardless repositories status
        repoinfo        show repositories information
                make.conf [repos]               show make.conf for the chosen repositories
                package.mask [repos]            show package.mask for the chosen repositories
                package.unmask [repos]          show package.unmask for the chosen repositories
                package.keywords [repos]        show package.keywords for the chosen repositories
                package.use [repos]             show package.use for the chosen repositories
                profile.link [repos]            show make.profile link for the chosen repositories
        notice [repos]  repository notice board reader
        status          show respositories status

        search          search packages in repositories
        match           match a package in repositories
                --multimatch    return all the possible matches
                --multirepo     return matches from every repository
                --showrepo      print repository information (w/--quiet)
                --showdesc      print description too (w/--quiet)

        hop <branch>    upgrade your distribution to a new release (branch)

        world (or upgrade)      update system with the latest available packages
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --fetch         just download packages
                --pretend       only show what would be done
                --verbose       show more details about what is going on
                --replay        reinstall all the packages and their dependencies
                --empty         same as --replay
                --resume        resume previously interrupted operations
                --skipfirst     used with --resume, makes the first package to be skipped
                --nochecksum    disable package integrity check
                --multifetch    download multiple packages in parallel (default 3)
                --multifetch=N  download N packages in parallel (max 10)

        security        security infrastructure functions
                update          download the latest Security Advisories
                list            list all the available Security Advisories
                        --affected      list only affected
                        --unaffected    list only unaffected
                info            show information about provided advisories identifiers
                install         automatically install all the available security updates
                        --ask           ask before making any changes
                        --fetch         just download packages
                        --pretend       just show what would be done
                        --quiet         show less details (useful for scripting)

        install         install atoms or .tbz2 packages
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done
                --fetch         just download packages without doing the install
                --nodeps        do not pull in any dependency
                --resume        resume previously interrupted operations
                --skipfirst     used with --resume, makes the first package in queue to be skipped
                --clean         remove downloaded packages after being used
                --empty         pull all the dependencies in, regardless their state
                --deep          makes dependency rules stricter
                --verbose       show more details about what is going on
                --configfiles   makes old configuration files to be removed
                --nochecksum    disable package integrity check
                --multifetch    download multiple packages in parallel (default 3)
                --multifetch=N  download N packages in parallel (max 10)

        source          download atoms source code
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done
                --savehere      save sources in current working directory

        remove          remove one or more packages
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done
                --nodeps        do not pull in any dependency
                --deep          also pull unused dependencies where depends list is empty
                --configfiles   makes configuration files to be removed
                --resume        resume previously interrupted operations

        config          configure one or more installed packages
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done

        deptest         look for unsatisfied dependencies
                --quiet         show less details (useful for scripting)
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done

        unusedpackages          look for unused packages (pay attention)
                --quiet         show less details (useful for scripting)
                --sortbysize    sort packages by disk size

        libtest         look for missing libraries
                --dump          dump results to files
                --listfiles     print broken files to stdout
                --quiet         show less details (useful for scripting)
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done

        conf            configuration files update tool
                info            show configuration files to be updated
                update          run the configuration files update function

        query           do misc queries on repository and local databases
                belongs         search from what package a file belongs
                changelog       show packages changelog
                depends         search what packages depend on the provided atoms
                description     search packages by description
                files           show files owned by the provided atoms
                installed       search a package into the local database
                license         show packages owning the provided licenses
                list            list packages based on the chosen parameter below
                        installed               list installed packages
                        available [repos]       list available packages
                needed          show runtime libraries needed by the provided atoms
                orphans         search files that do not belong to any package
                removal         show the removal tree for the specified atoms
                required        show atoms needing the provided libraries
                sets            search available package sets
                slot            show packages owning the provided slot
                tags            show packages owning the provided tags
                --verbose       show more details
                --quiet         print results in a scriptable way

  Extended Options

        smart           handles extended functionalities
                application     make a smart application for the provided atoms (experimental)
                package         make a smart package for the provided atoms (multiple packages into one file)
                quickpkg        recreate an Entropy package from your System
                        --savedir       save new packages into the specified directory
                inflate         convert provided Gentoo .tbz2s into Entropy packages (Portage needed)
                        --savedir       save new packages into the specified directory
                deflate         convert provided Entropy packages into Gentoo ones (Portage needed)
                        --savedir       save new packages into the specified directory
                extract         extract Entropy metadata from provided .tbz2 packages
                        --savedir       save new metadata into the specified directory

        database        handles installed packages database
                check           check System Database for errors
                vacuum          remove System Database internal indexes to save space
                generate        generate installed packages database using Portage database (Portage needed)
                resurrect       generate installed packages database using files on the system [last hope]
                depends         regenerate depends caching table
                counters        update/generate counters table (Portage <-> Entropy packages table)
                gentoosync      makes Entropy aware of your Portage-updated packages
                backup          backup the current Entropy installed packages database
                restore         restore a previously backed up Entropy installed packages database

        packages        handles packages helper applications
                python-updater  migrate all Python modules to the latest installed version
                --ask           ask before making any changes
                --pretend       just show what would be done

        community       handles community-side features
                repos           community repositories management functions
                        update                  scan the System looking for newly compiled packages
                                --seekstore             analyze the Entropy Store directory directly
                                --repackage <atoms>     repackage the specified atoms
                                --noask                 do not ask anything except critical things
                                --atoms <atoms> manage only the specified atoms
                        inject <packages>       add binary packages to repository w/o affecting scopes (multipackages)
                mirrors         community repositories mirrors management functions
                        sync                    sync packages, database and also do some tidy
                                --noask                 do not ask anything except critical things
                                --syncall               sync all the configured repositories
                        packages-sync           sync packages across primary mirrors
                                --ask                   ask before making any changes
                                --pretend               only show what would be done
                                --syncall               sync all the configured repositories
                                --do-packages-check     also verify packages integrity
                        db-sync                 sync the current repository database across primary mirrors
                                --syncall               sync all the configured repositories
                        db-lock                 lock the current repository database (server-side)
                        db-unlock               unlock the current repository database (server-side)
                        db-download-lock        lock the current repository database (client-side)
                        db-download-unlock      unlock the current repository database (client-side)
                        db-lock-status          show current lock status
                        tidy                    remove binary packages not in repositories and expired

                database        community repositories database functions
                        --initialize            (re)initialize the current repository database
                                --empty                 do not refill database using packages on mirrors
                                --repo=<repo>           (re)create the database for the specified repository
                        bump                    manually force a revision bump for the current repository database
                                --sync                  synchronize the database
                        flushback [branches]    flush back old branches packages to current branch
                        remove                  remove the provided atoms from the current repository database
                        multiremove             remove the provided injected atoms (all if no atom specified)
                        create-empty-database   create an empty repository database in the provided path
                        switchbranch <from branch> <to branch>          switch to the specified branch the provided atoms (or world)
                        md5remote               verify remote integrity of the provided atoms (or world)
                        backup                  backup current repository database
                        restore                 restore a previously backed-up repository database
                        counters                resync counters table (Portage <-> Entropy matching scheme)

                repo            manage a repository
                        enable <repo>                   enable the specified repository
                        disable <repo>                  disable the specified repository
                        status <repo>                   show the current Server Interface status
                        manual-deps <repo> [atoms]      handle packages manual dependencies
                        package-tag <repo> <tag-string> [atoms] clone a package inside a repository assigning it an arbitrary tag
                        move <from> <to> [atoms]        move packages from a repository to another
                                --deps          pulls dependencies in
                        copy <from> <to> [atoms]        copy packages from a repository to another
                                --deps          pulls dependencies in
                        default <repo_id>               set the default repository

                query           do some searches into community repository databases
                        belongs                 show from what package the provided files belong
                        changelog               show packages changelog
                        depends                 show what packages depend on the provided atoms
                        description             search packages by description
                        eclass                  search packages using the provided eclasses
                        files                   show files owned by the provided atoms
                        list                    list all the packages in the default repository
                        needed                  show runtime libraries needed by the provided atoms
                        search                  search packages inside the default repository database
                        sets                    search available package sets
                        tags                    show packages owning the specified tags
                        --verbose               show more details
                        --quiet                 print results in a scriptable way

                spm             source package manager functions
                        compile         compilation function
                                categories      compile packages belonging to the provided categories
                                        --list  just list packages
                                        --nooldslots    do not pull old package slots
                                pkgset          compile packages in provided package set names
                                        --list  just list packages
                                        --rebuild       rebuild everything
                                        --dbupdate      run database update if all went fine
                                        --dbsync        run mirror sync if all went fine
                        orphans         scan orphaned packages on SPM

                notice          notice board handling functions
                        add                     add a news item to the notice board
                        remove                  remove a news item from the notice board
                        read                    read the current notice board

                deptest         look for unsatisfied dependencies across community repositories
                pkgtest         verify the integrity of local package files
                depends         regenerate the depends table

        ugc             handles User Generated Content features
                login <repository>      login against a specified repository
                logout <repository>     logout from a specified repository
                        --force                 force action
                documents <repository>  manage package documents for the selected repository (comments, files, videos)
                        get <pkgkey>            get available documents for the specified package key (example: x11-libs/qt)
                        add <pkgkey>            add a new document to the specified package key (example: x11-libs/qt)
                        remove <docs ids>       remove documents from database using their identifiers
                vote <repository>       manage package votes for the selected repository
                        get <pkgkey>            get vote for the specified package key (example: x11-libs/qt)
                        add <pkgkey>            add vote for the specified package key (example: x11-libs/qt)

        cache           handles Entropy cache
                clean           clean Entropy cache
                generate        regenerate Entropy cache
                --verbose       show more details
                --quiet         print results in a scriptable way

        cleanup         remove downloaded packages and clean temp. directories

        --info          show system information


this part:

Code:
               spm             source package manager functions
                        compile         compilation function
                                categories      compile packages belonging to the provided categories
                                        --list  just list packages
                                        --nooldslots    do not pull old package slots
                                pkgset          compile packages in provided package set names
                                        --list  just list packages
                                        --rebuild       rebuild everything
                                        --dbupdate      run database update if all went fine
                                        --dbsync        run mirror sync if all went fine
                        orphans         scan orphaned packages on SPM


is dealing with source compile of new package versions with new use flags in sabayon ...

for this to begin, you need to make a private repo using repo command, then in it compile you binary package or set of packages,a new kde 4.3.2 repository for example, publish it like a binary overlay ant then, use it, and hope you are not alone hunting and squashing bugs, and other sabayoners like you binaries and use it!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The mistake that is Sabayon 5.0 Reply with quote

totedati wrote:
a friendly advice ... if very quick after a fresh install you fell an urge to do an
Code:
emerge -uaDvN world
then don't use sabayon linux ... use gentoo! sabayon linux is not gentoo ... is a binary distribution! not an source based metadistribution!


In fact, Sabayon cannot be compare like nowadays if you compare Gentoo vs Funtoo.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please update the topic to reflect reality. The mistake is all yours, as (1) you don't really understand what Sabayon is, and (2) you don't seem to understand how Gentoo works...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP and others posting on this thread. Obviously the OP doesn't understand that Sabayon is based on unstable/testing Gentoo. It's nearly impossible to revert from unstable/testing back to stable whether using Sabayon or Gentoo. If you understand that you're running unstable and accept this then you're going to have much less heartache.

I'm running a Gentoo unstable setup on one of my boxes that started off as Sabayon 5.0. It works flawlessly with the occasional hiccup because of running unstable packages. It's easy to go from Sabayon to Gentoo unstable if you're knowledgeable about portage, use flags, and understand how to edit config files. If you don't understand these things then you aren't a "power-user" no matter what you think. Sabayon serves it's purpose as a cutting-edge binary distro based on Gentoo unstable, but that is what it is, nothing more nothing less.

For someone who wants a shortcut to installing Gentoo unstable, Sabayon is an option. However, if you're looking to run Gentoo stable then there are many hurdles to jump over. For one all recent Sabayon versions use baselayout2. It's much easier to switch from baselayout1 to 2 than it is to switch to baselayout2 to 1. The compiler toolchain is all based on unstable as well as portage ver 2.2_rc*. If you insist on trying to convert from Sabayon to Gentoo stable then using the Sabayon 4.2 "core" installation is the way to go. It's far enough behind portage that most of the installed packages are now in stable. But you'll still have to modify package.keywords file to keep baselayout2 and portage2.2_rc*. If you do this you'll have much better success.

I hope this helps

Ciao
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There must have been an easier way to obtain the graphics/themes from sabayon besides wiping a perfectly good install for it :lol:

If you want gentoo (or a binary distribution), sabayon isn't the way to go.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheater1034 wrote:
There must have been an easier way to obtain the graphics/themes from sabayon besides wiping a perfectly good install for it :lol:

If you want gentoo (or a binary distribution), sabayon isn't the way to go.


There all one needs to do is add Sabayon as an overlay. All of the graphics/themes get marked as stable when a new version is released, so it's quite possible to run a stable Gentoo system, but take advantage of Sabayon graphics and themes.

Now back to the OP: I took a look on my Sabayon/Gentoo unstable box. You are having issues with packages that are in Sabayon repository but not in Gentoo or at least not in Gentoo the same way that they are in Sabayon. You need to take a look at your package.mask, package.unmask, package.keywords, and package.use files. I'm sure you will find blockers there that is keeping portage from using the current Gentoo equivalent which is why you're getting messages about "Unknown download location/overlay" and "Unable to locate origin". You removed the Sabayon overlay but are still blocking portage from using the Gentoo equivalent so portage can't reach Sabayon to download a package it needs, but is being instructed not to use a package it can easily substitute from portage

For example look in package.mask. There you find numerous masks of apps in portage that Sabayon doesn't want brought in to their tree, and very good notations as to why the particular app is masked. Remember Sabayon is a binary distro, they need to compile apps for multiple installations. They can't have something that can be brought in as a dependency for one program that may conflict with something someone else installed with another. So they only bring in as dependencies things that "play nice" with each other.

This is a typical example: in Gentoo if you install the default KDEbase-meta with zeroconf flag enabled, it will draw in net-misc/mDNSResponder, but Sabayon prefers Avahi so the notation in package mask looks like this:
Code:
#Joost Ruis: We use Avahi so we want to mask this
net-misc/mDNSResponder
net-misc/asterisk-res_bondia


There are dozens of annotations like this in the /etc/portage config files. Only if you fully understand portage and it's configuration can you jump easily between Sabayon and Gentoo. On my Gentoo-unstable box I have only a few Sabayon programs remaining and those are ones in which a newer version is in their repository than what's in portage or are graphical in nature and I like how they look/sound. And so I have no conflicts or hiccups I make entropy/equo fully aware of what I've done with portage by running "equo database gentoosync".

Now for the other poster who mentioned the humongous "world" file. There is an easy solution which is what I used to convert from Sabayon to Gentoo. Just remove/rename it (the world file). Don't remove the overlay just sync them up. Then run emerge -eavND world. Check the output, if the use flag choices don't match what you desire then edit your make.conf and package.use. Recompile with your desired choices fully aware that when finished you may have 40 or more config files which may need tending to. When done just run emerge --depclean -av and the unwanted crap will appear for removal. Before blindly accepting the choices look through them to make sure you aren't deleting something important. Anything you find you need add back into your world file. When finished run depclean again, clean the cruft out. Then run revdep-rebuild to make sure you don't have any dangling links or dependencies. When finished you'll be using your own Gentoo unstable/Sabayon overlay customized to your liking.

Finally to the poster complaining about Sabayon being on the backs of Gentoo like Ubuntu riding on the back of Debian. Dude you've got no clue about how OSS works. We all ride on each others' backs. Have you ever looked at the patch-set of a typical large app? You've got patches written by Fedora, Debian, Suse, Mandriva, Ubuntu. We all use each others work. That's the whole idea behind open source software, we all build upon each other to improve and make better what we found. Without this Linux would have never been able to advance to the point it has. If IBM or Connical want to spend their own money contributing to OSS development we're all better off, even distros not directly related to their projects.

I hope this helps.

Ciao
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info Odysseus. I'll be keeping it in mind too, although I'm hoping eyoung100 gives the gentoo install method a try.
Personaly I'm happy dual-booting gentoo and Sabayon, but of course I'm still noobish enough to break things. (its nice to have a second system to google fixes with ;) )
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

totedati, d2_racing,

emerge is mentioned everywhere in sabayon's FAQ: http://wiki.sabayonlinux.org/index.php?title=FAQ

If you are not supposed to use emerge with sabayon, then I shall say it is sabayon that is misleading the users (i.e. Ric95, eyoung100, and me).
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j-kidd wrote:
totedati, d2_racing,

emerge is mentioned everywhere in sabayon's FAQ: http://wiki.sabayonlinux.org/index.php?title=FAQ

If you are not supposed to use emerge with sabayon, then I shall say it is sabayon that is misleading the users (i.e. Ric95, eyoung100, and me).


There's nothing misleading about Sabayon and emerge, I can attest to this. Where problems arise is because people like the OP don't fully understand portage and it's proper use, and / or entropy and it's proper use. Or more often people try it with unrealistic expectations.

Let's be frank about it, Sabayon is a binary distro based on an unstable tree. They (the few developers they have) try their best to release a product that works, but there are bound to be hiccups when the base it's built upon isn't proven reliable. Sabayon is probably the most "cutting-edge" Linux distro around, but the price to be paid for this is that some things might break or be broken in the process. Just like if you run Gentoo unstable.

And just like running Gentoo unstable one must be prepared to have to fiddle with things to get them running properly. Or sometimes things just plain don't work and you have to wait for the next update for it to be fixed. If you go into using it keeping this in mind, you'll have a much better experience. If you go in expecting more you'll be disappointed.

I hope this helps.

Ciao
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Or more often people try it with unrealistic expectations.


Dude, you were just contradicting yourself. I posted the Sabayon FAQ link, exactly because it gives people false expectations that you can use emerge as-if with Sabayon. You can't.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j-kidd wrote:
Quote:
Or more often people try it with unrealistic expectations.


Dude, you were just contradicting yourself. I posted the Sabayon FAQ link, exactly because it gives people false expectations that you can use emerge as-if with Sabayon. You can't.


How am I contradicting myself? I understand how to use portage and I learned entropy. I'm having no problems running Gentoo-unstable on an installation that started out as Sabayon-5, but you and the OP are. Is the problem with Sabayon, or with users? There's nothing misleading there at all, the page you link to shows how to use portage to get apps not in the Sabayon repository, it also goes into details about the differences between Sabayon and Gentoo. Most of the page shows how to properly use their binary package manger entropy/equo, and there are numerous links to Gentoo for proper portage use. If a user is unable to comprehend this then how are they (Sabayon) responsible?

The OP wiped-out a perfectly good Gentoo stable setup to run Sabayon which is unstable, then tried to use portage to switch back to Gentoo stable. How is this a problem with Sabayon? If you had a well running Gentoo stable installation, changed your make.conf to unstable and recompiled your system and found it to be unstable, would that now be Gentoo's problem?

Layman and the use of overlays has been in Gentoo for some time. There is a Sabayon overlay that's been available for nearly as long. If the OP only wanted the "eye-candy" and is a "power-user" then how is Sabayon responsible for the OP not being capable enough to simply install the Sabayon overlay onto his stable Gentoo installation?

Nowhere in their wiki or in any of the posts in their forums are there instructions of how to switch from Sabayon to Gentoo stable or visa-versa. As a matter of fact there is thread in their forums where I asked about them having a "stable" version. I was told that at one point they tried but that they didn't have the resources to maintain two versions, so they decided to concentrate on just the one based on our unstable.

In that thread it was suggested that if someone really wanted to run Gentoo stable, that the best option would be to use the ver-4.2 "core" cd, which is a minimalist installation with just the tool chain, internet tools and no GUI. Further it was mentioned that going from baselayout2 to baselayout1 would be nearly impossible, so adjustments would have to be made in the appropriate portage config files to account for this. It was also mentioned that there could be other serious issues because hundreds of packages would have to be downgraded, numerous config files edited/adjusted and other issues encountered. Again doing this (switching from Sabayon to Gentoo satable) was very strongly discouraged.

Sabayon isn't responsible for any of these issues. They all amount to user errors. Nothing more nothing less.

Ciao
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You message talked about OP's problem, which involves switching between arch. The problem as detailed by Ric95 has nothing to do with arch switching, and that's the problem I encountered also.

As far as I can tell, all the posters in this thread, no matter those sided with OP or those called him out as noob, agreed that Sabayon is just too different from Gentoo that you should keep emerge usage to minimal or not use it at all. Except you.

Perhaps what Sabayon needs is a FAQ entry like this:

Quote:

Q: Can you take a Sabayon installation and convert it to Gentoo later?
A: Definitely, if you are as smart as Odysseus.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j-kidd wrote:
You message talked about OP's problem, which involves switching between arch. The problem as detailed by Ric95 has nothing to do with arch switching, and that's the problem I encountered also.

As far as I can tell, all the posters in this thread, no matter those sided with OP or those called him out as noob, agreed that Sabayon is just too different from Gentoo that you should keep emerge usage to minimal or not use it at all. Except you.

Perhaps what Sabayon needs is a FAQ entry like this:

Quote:

Q: Can you take a Sabayon installation and convert it to Gentoo later?
A: Definitely, if you are as smart as Odysseus.


I thought I answered Ric95 and I guess your question already. Just rename your world-file, do an emerge -eavND world, recompile, revdep-rebuild if needed, then emerge --depclean and see what portage wants to remove. Anything important that you don't want purged, add back to your world file. Seems straight forward. Must I repeat a third time?

Nowhere at all on their site does Sabayon condone, suggest or even mention how to convert to Gentoo.

As far as the "smart as Odysseus" statement is concerned.... I'm a 47 year old Truck-driver/freight-handler (A Teamster, local 769). I have a high school diploma, no college, and no formal computer training. They didn't even have PC's back when I was in school in the '70's.

If I can figure this crap out, then it isn't rocket science!! Anyone can do this if they have a little patience, use search engines, ask pertinent questions and can read the answer. I suggest you do so and not be so sarcastic and condescending in the future.

Ciao
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odysseus wrote:
As far as the "smart as Odysseus" statement is concerned.... I'm a 47 year old Truck-driver/freight-handler (A Teamster, local 769). I have a high school diploma, no college, and no formal computer training. They didn't even have PC's back when I was in school in the '70's.

If I can figure this crap out, then it isn't rocket science!! Anyone can do this if they have a little patience, use search engines, ask pertinent questions and can read the answer. I suggest you do so and not be so sarcastic and condescending in the future.

++
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest that installing sabayon is an annoying way to get gentoo. If you install sabayon it should be because you want sabayon - not because you want gentoo.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I thought I answered Ric95 and I guess your question already. Just rename your world-file, do an emerge -eavND world, recompile, revdep-rebuild if needed, then emerge --depclean and see what portage wants to remove. Anything important that you don't want purged, add back to your world file. Seems straight forward. Must I repeat a third time?

Dude, you still didn't get it. Whatever you said is 100% correct and working. Instead of repeating it for a third time here, perhaps you may want to channel that energy instead to update the FAQ entry?

Really, a short entry about "Sabayon comes with a bastardized world file and thus you shouldn't use it like Gentoo" will do. Until then, the blame is more on Sabayon, not the users.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheater1034 wrote:
I'd suggest that installing sabayon is an annoying way to get gentoo. If you install sabayon it should be because you want sabayon - not because you want gentoo.


I would agree that it's an annoying way to get Gentoo, but the fact remains that it can be done. And if done correctly it allows one to be able to get a system up and running in a matter of minutes not the days it takes to get Gentoo to the same state of usefulness. This can be extremely useful for those who need to have a usable system right away, or for those like myself who don't have a hard-wired connection or limited internet access. For then it's actually much easier to update a configured running machine than to start from scratch.

In my case I don't have internet access at home, (I was out of work for a while and Internet was just one of the luxuries we had to eliminate) but I could take my Sabayon box to the internet Cafe' I frequent (Starbucks around the corner), do an "emerge -efND world" to download all of the needed files, then compile in the background at home, while still being able to use my laptop for other things. (In my case I worked on my resume' and cover letters.)

j-kidd wrote:
Dude, you still didn't get it. Whatever you said is 100% correct and working. Instead of repeating it for a third time here, perhaps you may want to channel that energy instead to update the FAQ entry?

Really, a short entry about "Sabayon comes with a bastardized world file and thus you shouldn't use it like Gentoo" will do. Until then, the blame is more on Sabayon, not the users.


I still don't get it??? First off I'm not a developer for Sabayon or anyone else for that matter. Like I said in my previous post I'm a truck driver, computers are a hobby for me. I work 60plus hours a week trying to scrape by a meager living for myself and my family. I quite frankly don't have the time nor the inclination to do something like that. Besides, I'm a firm believer that technical information should be left to those with much greater knowledge and expertise than myself.

Now as far as their developers are concerned Sabayon is a binary distribution, it's designed to be that way, and that's where their very limited development effort and resources are spent. They don't intend for their distro to be an entry point for Gentoo. And posting a way to do so on their site would be counterproductive and take away from their efforts. They specify in their website and all over their forums that Sabayon is a cutting edge binary distro designed for those who don't want to be constantly updating and compiling their system. And for what they intend for it to do, it serves that purpose. Those of us converting to Gentoo unstable are going counter to what the developers intend, therefore we are doing so without support.

If they were to post on their site procedures for Gentoo conversions, then they would be responsible for the support headaches that would ensue. In essence they would be condoning or even encouraging the procedure if there were a "how to" on their site. That would be like Ubuntu placing on their wiki detailed instructions for converting to Debian. Sure, it can be done but that would defeat the whole purpose of their enterprise and would be foolish to do so. Instead, like Sabayon, Ubuntu does show only how to get from Debian apps that aren't in the Canonical repositories. This makes perfect sense to me, as it should now for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
Please update the topic to reflect reality. The mistake is all yours, as (1) you don't really understand what Sabayon is, and (2) you don't seem to understand how Gentoo works...

Odysseus wrote:
To the OP and others posting on this thread. Obviously the OP doesn't understand that Sabayon is based on unstable/testing Gentoo. It's nearly impossible to revert from unstable/testing back to stable whether using Sabayon or Gentoo. If you understand that you're running unstable and accept this then you're going to have much less heartache.

Whoa Nelly! I didn't think I would start a flame war. I take it as an insult that I don't know what Gentoo is, especially since I've been using it from version 2004.1 onwards.

Ric95 wrote:
But entropy/equo uses the world file differently, it lists every package installed!. All dependencies and libs are in there, some with version numbers. My MCE lite install on partition 2 has a world file with 1985 lines! Entropy rewrites world when updating, but portage just looks at that and tries to reproduce whats already there.
You just can't update it with portage ( well I can't anyhow...)


I agree with Ric95 here, but I disagree with you all that this is the correct way to handicap portage. Being the "power user" I profess to be, I understand what portage is and how it should be used. That's why before I made the switch, I did what was suggested:
Odysseus wrote:
There all one needs to do is add Sabayon as an overlay. All of the graphics/themes get marked as stable when a new version is released, so it's quite possible to run a stable Gentoo system, but take advantage of Sabayon graphics and themes.

Odysseus wrote:
Layman and the use of overlays has been in Gentoo for some time. There is a Sabayon overlay that's been available for nearly as long. If the OP only wanted the "eye-candy" and is a "power-user" then how is Sabayon responsible for the OP not being capable enough to simply install the Sabayon overlay onto his stable Gentoo installation?


This does not work as it was intended, because in some sections of the overlay the developers forgot to source the new portage files, i.e. package.mask in the layman make.conf, and they do not make their portage files available unless you have a sabayon copy already. When I added the overlay I was under the impression that I could add every package, not just the artwork. Their regular make.conf file includes use variables that aren't even in the standard list of use flags, which means the overlay must be installed properly first, but one can't install it properly without the proper portage files, as mentioned previously.

j-kidd wrote:
totedati, d2_racing,

emerge is mentioned everywhere in sabayon's FAQ: http://wiki.sabayonlinux.org/index.php?title=FAQ

If you are not supposed to use emerge with sabayon, then I shall say it is sabayon that is misleading the users (i.e. Ric95, eyoung100, and me).


Since I do understand how emerge works, and if Sabayon is based on Gentoo, in theory shouldn't I be able to use portage without telling entropy to do an equo gentoosync. The whole reason I tried this experiment was to see if I could get things like compiz fusion and beryl, and dvd playing without having to use trial and error, because by our nature humans are sometimes lazy. When I switched what did I get for my laziness, except for a convoluted portage that is just a messy hack covered up by a binary package manager that is just another hack to bridge the gap that the developers took to cover up the fact they are misleading their user base on the proper use of portage.
I know this because:
Odysseus wrote:
As far as the "smart as Odysseus" statement is concerned.... I'm a 47 year old Truck-driver/freight-handler (A Teamster, local 769). I have a high school diploma, no college, and no formal computer training. ...
If I can figure this crap out, then it isn't rocket science!! Anyone can do this if they have a little patience, use search engines, ask pertinent questions and can read the answer. I suggest you do so and not be so sarcastic and condescending in the future.


I have a college degree in computing and have contributed to this community with posts like this:
Initial RAM Disk HOWTO, and been more than helpful to all of us.

You're right, it isn't rocket science, and maybe this is where my formal training will get me in trouble, but those of us with training in computers know that there is a proper and logical way to do what needs to be done. I contend that after I tried this I took the other approach, as I am now running a stable arch with my "eye-candy" packages properly listed in /etc/portage/package.keywords, and granted it will take me awhile to mimick the sabayon overlay, but it can be done, as the sabayon developers started from the same gentoo I use:
Code:

#Compiz Fusion Packages
dev-python/compizconfig-python
x11-wm/compiz
x11-wm/compiz-fusion
x11-plugins/compiz-plugins-main
x11-plugins/compiz-plugins-extra
x11-plugins/compiz-plugins-unsupported
x11-wm/emerald
x11-themes/emerald-themes
x11-apps/ccsm
x11-libs/libcompizconfig
x11-libs/libcompizconfig-backend-gconf
x11-libs/libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig
x11-libs/compiz-bcop
x11-apps/fusion-icon
x11-libs/compizconfig-backend-gconf

#The Stable version does not compile due to
#an error in librbpodcast_parse.la
media-sound/rhythmbox

#XFCE Goodies Packages
#See http://goodies.xfce.org/#downloads
#Will build a meta ebuild once I see
#if they all compile successfully
#Apps Section
x11-misc/gigolo
www-client/midori
media-video/parole
app-text/xfbib
#Panel-Plugins
xfce-extra/xfce4-indicator-plugin
dev-libs/libindicator

#All Packages in this list are:
#Not needed as its not masked, but
#used to keep track of all packages
#for later ebuild
#Apps Section
#Replaces default daemon x11-misc/notification-daemon
#x11-misc/xfce4-notifyd
#media-gfx/ristretto
#app-cdr/xfburn
#xfce-extra/xfce4-taskmanager
#xfce-extra/xfce4-volstatus-icon
#xfce-extra/xfce4-dict
#xfce-extra/xfce4-power-manager
#xfce-extra/xfce4-screenshooter
#Panel-Plugins section
#xfce-extra/xfce4-verve-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-battery-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-cellmodem-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-clipman-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-cpugraph-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-datetime-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-diskperf-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-eyes-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-fsguard-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-genmon-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-linelight-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-mailwatch-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-modemlights-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-mount-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-mpc-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-netload-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-notes-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-places-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-quicklauncher-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-radio-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-sensors-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-stopwatch-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-systemload-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-timer-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-time-out-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-wavelan-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-weather-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-wmdock-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-xfapplet-plugin
#xfce-extra/xfce4-xkb-plugin
#Thunar Plugins
#xfce-extra/thunar-archive-plugin
#xfce-extra/thunar-media-tags-plugin
#xfce-extra/thunar-vcs-plugin
#xfce-extra/thunar-thumbnailers


From an administration standpoint, it is a lot easier to run a stable system with the needed unstable packages, than it is to run unstable packages on top of an unstable system. In truth, this is why Windows has so many issues as there is code that still exists from previous versions underneath newer code, all for the sake of compatibility and ease of use. Don't get me wrong as I admire the Sabayon developers for knowing how to in essence disable portage and use equo in its place, but I can agree to disagree on the approach they took to become "bleeding edge." Now I will join j-kidd in watching the Mavericks pound the 76ers.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eyoung100 wrote:

Odysseus wrote:
There all one needs to do is add Sabayon as an overlay. All of the graphics/themes get marked as stable when a new version is released, so it's quite possible to run a stable Gentoo system, but take advantage of Sabayon graphics and themes.

Odysseus wrote:
Layman and the use of overlays has been in Gentoo for some time. There is a Sabayon overlay that's been available for nearly as long. If the OP only wanted the "eye-candy" and is a "power-user" then how is Sabayon responsible for the OP not being capable enough to simply install the Sabayon overlay onto his stable Gentoo installation?


This does not work as it was intended, because in some sections of the overlay the developers forgot to source the new portage files, i.e. package.mask in the layman make.conf, and they do not make their portage files available unless you have a sabayon copy already. When I added the overlay I was under the impression that I could add every package, not just the artwork. Their regular make.conf file includes use variables that aren't even in the standard list of use flags, which means the overlay must be installed properly first, but one can't install it properly without the proper portage files, as mentioned previously.


Any package that has any kind of modification, or any additional packages are all available in the overlay [1]. all the "variables" are included in the make file that are not portage features [2].

I'm unsure exactly what you mean by "proper portage files" but the usuals are available on the overlay[3]. All the options that are used to build entropy packages are available also [4], however using them is not necessary if you are using portage w/ the overlay.

j-kidd wrote:
totedati, d2_racing,
emerge is mentioned everywhere in sabayon's FAQ: http://wiki.sabayonlinux.org/index.php?title=FAQ

If you are not supposed to use emerge with sabayon, then I shall say it is sabayon that is misleading the users (i.e. Ric95, eyoung100, and me).

This is just an older wiki post that no one has had time to rewrite yet as Entropy itself is a pretty new thing, before that all of Sabayon's (and before that rr4/rr64) package management needs were handled by portage.

1. http://gitweb.sabayon.org/?p=overlay.git;a=summary
2. http://pkg.sabayon.org/standard/sabayonlinux.org/database/amd64/5/make.conf
3. http://gitweb.sabayon.org/?p=overlay.git;a=tree;f=profiles/profiles;h=ef7f22382f4f40279327024daeb5a24794dbc376;hb=HEAD
4. http://pkg.sabayon.org/standard/sabayonlinux.org/database/amd64/5/
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