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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:39 am    Post subject: Filesystem choice Reply with quote

Hmm... I keep thinking about the warning in the install guide:
Quote:
Warning: Again, we do not recommend ReiserFS at this time. While ReiserFS has worked fine for many, filesystem corruption has been too common a problem with ReiserFS and the 2.4.x series kernels.


Yet, ext3 -- which has no such warning -- has caused just as much corruption back in the early 2.4 series. Things mature, as the kernel maintainers have recognized. Check your kernel tree, ext3 is marked as "EXPERIMENTAL" but ReiserFS is in the production kernel.

I don't want a war of the filesystems, but does anyone else find the choice of warnings strange?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange indeed. That warning is why I went with ext3. I don't recall seeing
ext3 listed as experimental in menucofig. I'm sure an oversight on my part.
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Robert
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I may take a dare and try Reiserfs. I really need support for files larger than 2 Gig, and my XFS tryout turned out to be somewhat of a nightmare. First the Preempt issues, then I was getting lockups when attempting to transfer large files (which may have been something else I guess).

Anyway, I'll admit that Reiserfs was/is attractive, but Daniel's rather strong warning against it has been effective in scaring me away thus far ;)

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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Filesystem choice Reply with quote

delta407 wrote:
Check your kernel tree, ext3 is marked as "EXPERIMENTAL" but ReiserFS is in the production kernel.


Correction: ext3 is marked experimental in 2.4.18, but with ext3-0.9.18 (included with 2.4.19-pre8, and present in gentoo-2.4.19-r7) it is changed to stable. This statement, however, is true with 2.4.18.
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fghellar
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fs11.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the warning is rather silly. I think Reiserfs is great. I started using it as soon as Mandrake offered it (back in those dark days as a Mandrake user). I have only had one problem with corruption in all of these many months., and I can't remember how it happened, but I think I did somehting really stupid to cause it. I was quite surprised when I saw the warning in the install guide and completely disregarded it :) Reiserfs's quite quick and really like it.
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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daniel Robbins wrote:
And the news gets even better -- it appears that kernel 2.4.18 has a very solid ReiserFS implementation. And 2.4.18 isn't exactly a spring chicken -- at the time this article was written, it was nearly 3 months old and there still haven't been any major problems found in the code.
...
So, it appears that ReiserFS and the 2.4 kernel have finally resolved their differences.

And there's still a warning in the install guide... why?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delta407 wrote:
Daniel Robbins wrote:
And the news gets even better -- it appears that kernel 2.4.18 has a very solid ReiserFS implementation. And 2.4.18 isn't exactly a spring chicken -- at the time this article was written, it was nearly 3 months old and there still haven't been any major problems found in the code.
...
So, it appears that ReiserFS and the 2.4 kernel have finally resolved their differences.

And there's still a warning in the install guide... why?

This is a good question because that's the first thing that people who are thinking about gentoo are going to look at. We certainly wouldn't want them to think that this type of warning is typical of what goes on with gentoo. It's actually been far from that, at least in my experience. Who would use an OS that's full of warnings and gloom 'n doom (tm)?
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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bug #4938 filed.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 11:41 am    Post subject: fs choises Reply with quote

- ext3 has the same limitations as ext2, but it's compatible and accessible from other os

- reiser is great from the personal experience, but apparently it has a design flaw: overwritting the file with the same hash. A friend of mine once got very strange fs problems: files disapear, cannot modify files, .... But after a rebuild (took 1 night in single user mode) everything is ok.

- I am using XFS now, haven't experience any problem yet (with preemptive), but I have a feeling that it is slower then reiser, it's just a feeling.

There is also a article on /. about the speed between ext3 and reiser on yesterday's page.

I would recommend:
- Ext3 for stability and compatiblility and easy upgrade path.
- Reiser for speed especially a lot of small files, and where you don't have critical data or you have goed backup.
- XFS: well it's tried and tested by SGI, but I am just using for a month, so I cannot comment on this one, if you are interested RTFM or just try it out. Till now everything is very stable.

my 2 cents

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well actually from the benchmarks on slashdot ext3 in writeback mode is faster then reiserfs!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read that too, but still cannot believe it. For those who is interested, there are some more benchmarks on http://www.namesys.com.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I experienced not a single problem with reiserfs within the at last 18 months or so (don't remember exactly, I began using it when the first more or less stable patches for 2.2 appeared), installed it on 12 servers, also with software-raid (which was long said to cause trouble).
ext3 is fine for upgrading old systems. I found xfs to be slower, at least with the 2 servers I tried.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use ext3 because, at the moment, it's the only one with data journaling.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reiserfs is very fast when it comes to work with many small files. And to be honest, the biggest part of allday work has to do with small files (as long as you're not using M$-Office or are a designer). Especially Squid and similar servers can really benefit from the tree-structure of reiserfs.

XFS therefore was never ment to be a fast FS for day-to-day work. It was developed for supporting HUGE (and I mean huge... ;) ) files and filesystems. It can f.ex. be used as fileserver in multimedia environments (at work we're having videos of many Gigs size).

Meanwhile I'm using XFS as my standard-FS. I didn't encoutner any problems, "but the day is still young" :twisted:
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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...getting back to the question, why are users still encouraged to not use ReiserFS in the install guide?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

..getting back to the question, why are users still encouraged to not use ReiserFS in the install guide?


Probably just human oversight. If there should be a warning, it should be with XFS and preemptive kernel patches. Judging from the results people have had, putting those two together is like pointing a loaded gun at your head, tying the trigger to your front door knob, and expecting visitors.

Deadly.

(Yeah, I use XFS, but that doesn't mean that I'm obligated to recommend it for every setup. :P )
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. I hope i dont end up with probs with xfs and preempt. Runnomg fine for now. I had to reinstall after a bad superblock wih ext3 and my fs was coming in as full, no matter what i did. Maybe i shuld have tryed resiser instead of xfs.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:24 pm    Post subject: warning xfs + preemptive Reply with quote

I just had a maasive file corruption with xfs, so I booted from install cd, did a xfs_recover, mounted the fs and copied all the files I need (incl. the /usr/protage/distfiles), I am downloading the 1.3b stage 1 in windows and I am switching back to reiser. XFS cannot be trusted with preemtive patch, after recover it didn't put the things in the right place, everything landed in /lost+found. My /boot was also XFS, but it is still intact, strange.

So here ends my adventure with xfs,

xming

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delta407
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: warning xfs + preemptive Reply with quote

xming wrote:
My /boot was also XFS, but it is still intact, strange.


You see the reason /boot is unmounted by default. ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, now I'm getting nervous... :?

Currently, I'm using a XFS only on my gentoo with the gentoo-xfs-kernel. Perhaps an extremely n00b question: But what exactly means "preempt" (say: what does it change on the kernel or the FS?) and is is enabled per default in the gentoo sources?

The reason I'm so anxious is that I perhaps want to use XFS on my little server at work. But if it is really still so broken, I will have to fallback to ext3...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
what exactly means "preempt" (say: what does it change on the kernel or the FS?) and is is enabled per default in the gentoo sources?


preempt is a performance modification for the kernel. It is not included in xfs-sources. Currently gentoo-sources and mjc-sources include this option, but IIRC it is not enabled by default.

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xming
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:24 am    Post subject: fs Reply with quote

> You see the reason /boot is unmounted by default.

It was mounted, I just copied the kernel on it.

Wel I am back now, kde is running, and resiserfs is much faster on ths laptop. Anyway I had less prblems with reiser (using it more then 1 year) than xfs (1 month).

For all of you using xfs, TURN OFF preemptive in your kernel, recompile and reboot.

xming
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: fs Reply with quote

xming wrote:
For all of you using xfs, TURN OFF preemptive in your kernel, recompile and reboot.

OK, thanks. But just to be really sure: this preempt option is called
Code:
Enable XFS Realtime support
in the config, right?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:31 pm    Post subject: preempt optio in the kernel Reply with quote

in "Processor type and features" -> "Preemptible Kernel",
this only applies when you are using gentoo-source or patch vanilla kernel with preempt patch AND turned on "Code maturity level options" -> "Prompt for development and/or incomplete code/drivers"

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