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Mike Hunt
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

It's obvious that Funtoo plows the modafokin crap outa Gentoo.

Hands down, no contest.


Any questions?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notice who started the project...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi poly_poly-man, I love you. :D
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Hunt wrote:
Hi poly_poly-man, I love you. :D
funny... most drug-induced posts actually say so... not usually technical things :P
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

Mike Hunt wrote:
It's obvious that Funtoo plows the modafokin crap outa Gentoo.

Hands down, no contest.


Any questions?

Yeah, what's better about it?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Mike Hunt wrote:
It's obvious that Funtoo plows the modafokin crap outa Gentoo.

Hands down, no contest.


Any questions?

Yeah, what's better about it?

a) Git-based portage tree, which has advantages too numerous to mention.
b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.
c) drobbins is at the helm, so less mismanagement confusion and bullshit.
d) Unlike other gentoo-based distros, it doesn't branch off, but rather constantly merges from upstream gentoo.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
a) Git-based portage tree, which has advantages too numerous to mention.

This I'll buy.

AidanJT wrote:
b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.

Gentoo has that. I've been using them for a long time.

AidanJT wrote:
c) drobbins is at the helm, so less mismanagement confusion and bullshit.
d) Unlike other gentoo-based distros, it doesn't branch off, but rather constantly merges from upstream gentoo.

While it seems correct to me that Daniel Robbins should be running Gentoo since he created it, how does funtoo avoid the consequences of Gentoo developer issues if it is based on Gentoo?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.

Gentoo has that. I've been using them for a long time.

Not on stable.

BoneKracker wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
c) drobbins is at the helm, so less mismanagement confusion and bullshit.
d) Unlike other gentoo-based distros, it doesn't branch off, but rather constantly merges from upstream gentoo.

While it seems correct to me that Daniel Robbins should be running Gentoo since he created it, how does funtoo avoid the consequences of Gentoo developer issues if it is based on Gentoo?

It uses gentoo ebuilds, but technical matters for the overall distro are no longer decided by Gentoo developers and politics.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
It uses gentoo ebuilds, but technical matters for the overall distro are no longer decided by Gentoo developers and politics.

Technical matters such as? Other than the package manager, could you provide me an example of such a technical matter where a different decision has been made that benefits you as a funtoo user?

I'm not arguing -- I'm trying to get information. I've considered using it before but wasn't sure what the pluses and minuses would be. :)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
... could you provide me an example of such a technical matter where a different decision has been made that benefits you as a funtoo user?
Code:
# grep -B 2 python /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask/funtoo-cautionary
# Daniel Robbins <drobbins@funtoo.org> (02 Aug 2009)
# let's watch upstream bugs for a bit:
>=dev-lang/python-3

# grep -B 2 glibc /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask/funtoo-cautionary
# Daniel Robbins <drobbins@funtoo.org> (19 Jan 2008)
# Mask new versions for caution
>sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201-r2


:)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
a) Git-based portage tree, which has advantages too numerous to mention.
While there may be advantages to using git in certain circumstances, it does not make the tree inherently any better simply by being used to track revisions of it. Mixing in patches and overlays in the way that has been done with Funtoo, if anything, hurts QA. At best, it makes opting out of whatever overlays that have been chosen for merging with that tree harder for users of that tree.
AidanJT wrote:
b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.
How, exactly, do regular configuration file format changes and major systems restructuring provide a more consistent environment? Mind you, how drobbins described handling that is probably one of the better available ways to deal with that change from upstream, but the change itself is just another case where upstream has demonstrated that OpenRC is not yet ready for general use.
AidanJT wrote:
c) drobbins is at the helm, so less mismanagement confusion and bullshit.
That was a joke, right?
AidanJT wrote:
d) Unlike other gentoo-based distros, it doesn't branch off, but rather constantly merges from upstream gentoo.
Which Gentoo based distribution has forked the tree without merging changes from the tree into their repository and actually stayed around long enough for that to matter?

BoneKracker wrote:
While it seems correct to me that Daniel Robbins should be running Gentoo since he created it, how does funtoo avoid the consequences of Gentoo developer issues if it is based on Gentoo?
He also left, twice, the second time only after inciting a flamewar and throwing a public fit. For him to somehow assume the role of benevolent dictator now would be analogous to someone claiming ownership of a car that they had abandoned long enough for it to be impounded and auctioned off by the local authorities, they would need to buy the car back.

Mike Hunt wrote:
Code:
# grep -B 2 python /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask/funtoo-cautionary
# Daniel Robbins <drobbins@funtoo.org> (02 Aug 2009)
# let's watch upstream bugs for a bit:
>=dev-lang/python-3

# grep -B 2 glibc /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask/funtoo-cautionary
# Daniel Robbins <drobbins@funtoo.org> (19 Jan 2008)
# Mask new versions for caution
>sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201-r2


:)
So masking a package that is already masked by upstream, that is in the Gentoo tree, and one that is not even present in the Gentoo tree somehow provides benefits to using the Funtoo tree over the Gentoo tree?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Yeah, what's better about it?

a) Git-based portage tree, which has advantages too numerous to mention.

AidanJT wrote:

b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.
.

no, not really. When I switched over it was a bitch - and there was no reward at all. Did not work better or faster. Was just another rc.

AidanJT wrote:

c) drobbins is at the helm, so less mismanagement confusion and bullshit.

all the confusion could be removed if ciaranm, who loves to game the system and his posse were banned.

AidanJT wrote:

d) Unlike other gentoo-based distros, it doesn't branch off, but rather constantly merges from upstream gentoo.

nice
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... I recently switched over from Funtoo (it was nice for a clean ~ start but always laaaaaaaagged behind submitting fresh ebuilds) to regular Gentoo. 'nuff said.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
While it seems correct to me that Daniel Robbins should be running Gentoo since he created it, how does funtoo avoid the consequences of Gentoo developer issues if it is based on Gentoo?
He also left, twice, the second time only after inciting a flamewar and throwing a public fit. For him to somehow assume the role of benevolent dictator now would be analogous to someone claiming ownership of a car that they had abandoned long enough for it to be impounded and auctioned off by the local authorities, they would need to buy the car back.

I do not know the details of what led up to him leaving or what ensued. I'm just a lowly user. I'll take your word for it.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
desultory wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
While it seems correct to me that Daniel Robbins should be running Gentoo since he created it, how does funtoo avoid the consequences of Gentoo developer issues if it is based on Gentoo?
He also left, twice, the second time only after inciting a flamewar and throwing a public fit. For him to somehow assume the role of benevolent dictator now would be analogous to someone claiming ownership of a car that they had abandoned long enough for it to be impounded and auctioned off by the local authorities, they would need to buy the car back.

I do not know the details of what led up to him leaving or what ensued. I'm just a lowly user. I'll take your word for it.


he had a slagging contest with ciaranm again... ironic since ciaran hasn't got anything todo with gentoo dev... yet still gets his grubby finger in thing - less so now since he has lost his patses on the council
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i switched (a long time ago) just for the git syncing and i was going ~amd64 anyway might as well have some fun too... ( :P )

i have been very happy with the funtoo originating gentoo system.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
i switched (a long time ago) just for the git syncing

Whats so great about doing that?
Is it faster? better? ...?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
jonnevers wrote:
i switched (a long time ago) just for the git syncing

Whats so great about doing that?
Is it faster? better? ...?

i perceive a performance improvement but there are still some long sync times.

it really just boils down to me liking git a lot. like a lot a lot. gento has git portage syncing somewhere in their pipeline i think.. the not too distant future.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syncing doesn't take long in Portage (about 1 minute).
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well after reading all those links posted I must say that some of what has been said for Funtoo is true, the bleeding edge bit at least.

I miss unstable being the most bleeding edge on the block, it seems like ArchLinux has now taken to that roll and is doing quite well, but that said, how long will Funtoo last until there is yet another port, yet another argument, yet another bit of fragmenting the idea.
The people behind Funtoo are way too emotional/unstable/have too many issues for me to trust this.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Syncing doesn't take long in Portage (about 1 minute).


providing you have a local copy to update from. syncing with nothing to start with takes a while.

Naib wrote:
he had a slagging contest with ciaranm again... ironic since ciaran hasn't got anything todo with gentoo dev... yet still gets his grubby finger in thing - less so now since he has lost his patses on the council


dunno, i'm sure they will continue to push their EAPI-2 agenda on us... then they'll find something else to complain about that breaks p-ludis or exwhoreo, and force us to comply... :roll:
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunder wrote:
dunno, i'm sure they will continue to push their EAPI-2 agenda on us... then they'll find something else to complain about that breaks p-ludis or exwhoreo, and force us to comply... :roll:


This is somewhat entertaining.

http://www.nabble.com/EAPI-2-is-brokened-:%28-td19905090.html
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Funtoo plows Gentoo Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.

Gentoo has that. I've been using them for a long time.

Not on stable.

Pfft. Funtoo doesn't even have a stable branch. I'm using OpenRC and baselayout-2 on Gentoo, also.

desultory wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
d) Unlike other gentoo-based distros, it doesn't branch off, but rather constantly merges from upstream gentoo.
Which Gentoo based distribution has forked the tree without merging changes from the tree into their repository and actually stayed around long enough for that to matter?

Exherbo. Though I don't know if it "matters".

energyman76b wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
b) Uses openrc and baselayout-2, which are faster and provides a more consistent environment.

no, not really. When I switched over it was a bitch - and there was no reward at all. Did not work better or faster. Was just another rc.

What were your problems? I had to switch over for new device mapper functionality and it was pretty painless. This was during the install, though. I didn't switch a live system over.

BoneKracker wrote:
desultory wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
While it seems correct to me that Daniel Robbins should be running Gentoo since he created it, how does funtoo avoid the consequences of Gentoo developer issues if it is based on Gentoo?
He also left, twice, the second time only after inciting a flamewar and throwing a public fit. For him to somehow assume the role of benevolent dictator now would be analogous to someone claiming ownership of a car that they had abandoned long enough for it to be impounded and auctioned off by the local authorities, they would need to buy the car back.

I do not know the details of what led up to him leaving or what ensued. I'm just a lowly user. I'll take your word for it.

The last time I believe it was for financial and domestic problems. He actually got a job a Microsoft shortly after, but that didn't last long.


Last edited by sts on Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm works like this:

he does something that is considered harmfull/despictable/discussionworthy, but not explecitly forbidden by the rules.

after the uproar he helps designing new rules to prevent others from doing the same.

he then uses his knowledge of the rules to hinder other people, while he himself is able to use a loophole.


after he got booted out he found the perfect niche: package manager specification

he can write it so paludis is favoured (and he did). He is also stepping on other toes, but thanks to the fact he is not a dev anymore, he can not be removed. I am not sure why the exherbo guys chose paludis. Again they are depending on ciaranm - but he stays out far enough so nobody can touch him.

The best thing to do:
kickban ciaranm from all mailing lists.
kick his posse
ignore his suggestions except when proven to be good.
scrap pms and redo it - without bending backwards to please paludis and exherbo.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
ciaranm works like this:

he does something that is considered harmfull/despictable/discussionworthy, but not explecitly forbidden by the rules.

after the uproar he helps designing new rules to prevent others from doing the same.

he then uses his knowledge of the rules to hinder other people, while he himself is able to use a loophole.


i think he's just a shit disturber.

Quote:
The best thing to do:
kickban ciaranm from all mailing lists.
kick his posse
ignore his suggestions except when proven to be good.
scrap pms and redo it - without bending backwards to please paludis and exherbo.


#2 is why i don't endorse #gentoo.et or #gentoo-forums anymore. every irc channel i go into, at least one of his goons is there. they're all the same, they're not concerned about gentoo, they're about making exherbo look good and making gentoo (and funtoo) look bad.

and since christel is also part of exherbo, freenode is stuck with them.
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