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FINITE
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:16 am    Post subject: Microsoft and Open GL.......... Reply with quote

I just heard from a friend here at work that MS is trying to get rights to openGL! Anyone else hear anything about this? That would surely be all but the death of Linux gaming! Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
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nempo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, they claimed they had rights to parts of the standard. Try searching (at the bottom) on slashdot, they have some links you might wish to read. If they tried anything with opengl Im sure they would be sued (again).
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MS purchased a company that owned some technology used with OpenGL. Microsoft sits on the
OpenGL consortium or whatever it is called. Legally, MS is required to inform the consortium if
they own intellectual property that could be used by the consortium. If you've heard anything about
Rambus and their legal issues, this is similar, only Rambus didn't disclose the information.
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TripKnot
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually MS purchased SGI which was a founder of OGL. And yes, with that acquisition, they did gain some patents, some important patents , for some of the features under consideration to be added to the official OGL spec in the near future. Whether or not these are added is up to the commity that oversees the spec. I'm hoping they don't add MS's tech and ignore their cross licensing proposal or whatever they want. MS already has enough steam going for them with their DRM OS to potentially computing freedom and they don't need any other help with ruining another standard.
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FINITE
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MS can kiss my @55 man. They are monsters.
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steblublu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FINITE wrote:
MS can kiss my @55 man. They are monsters.


<RANT>
monsters? of course they are. how dare they sell software! how dare they sell an OS that isnt linux! how dare they be successfull !

I mean, if my secretary wants to type up that letter, she should at least know how to download the word-processor source code from the ftp server, check and install any dependencies, compile the code, install and debug the printer driver. That's what I pay her for isnt it?

what? the compiled code doesnt work on her AMD because of a bug in the linux kernel that overwrites the memory cache of the video card driver she just got working after 2 months of tweaking? She should have seen it comming!

</RANT>



Why is it that every friggen linux forum i visit there is always some idiots who drag out the old tired "Microsoft sucks" theme?

enough already.



linux users should be more concerned with linux topics.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steblublu wrote:
FINITE wrote:
MS can kiss my @55 man. They are monsters.


<RANT>
monsters? of course they are. how dare they sell software! how dare they sell an OS that isnt linux! how dare they be successfull !
How dare they use their monopoly to drive others out of business.

Quote:
I mean, if my secretary wants to type up that letter, she should at least know how to download the word-processor source code from the ftp server, check and install any dependencies, compile the code, install and debug the printer driver. That's what I pay her for isnt it?
I'm guessing you don't pay your secretary to install Windows or security patches.
I bet you don't pay her to repair the system after a vb virus wreaks havoc on her
machine either.

Quote:
what? the compiled code doesnt work on her AMD because of a bug in the linux kernel that overwrites the memory cache of the video card driver she just got working after 2 months of tweaking? She should have seen it comming!

</RANT>
Oh, my mistake. I forgot the news bulletin announcing Microsoft had solved their .dll
problems, inexplicable shutdowns and BSOD occurances.



Quote:
Why is it that every friggen linux forum i visit there is always some idiots who drag out the old tired "Microsoft sucks" theme?

enough already.



linux users should be more concerned with linux topics.
So we can find the idiots like you. If you have that much of a problem with linux forums, go
start a MS forum. Then we can come troll your forums. This kind of statement isn't really
necessary. Oh, and I've never had any of the issues you've mentioned. I run an AMD too.

Have a nice day.
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FINITE
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steblublu:

Dude that was completely uncalled for man. I mean the only thing I don't like about MS is that they use their money to weasel their way into a possistion where they alone can control the outcome of any given situation they might find themselves in. I never said that MS SUCKS. I wouldn't know if they did. I do know that they are a bunch of @55 kissers though (not from personal experience mind you).

Seriously though I was not bashing MS and your "RANT" was completely uncalled for. "They are Monsters" could I guess be considerd as bashing though.

Thanks for the backing me up kanuslupus :D
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arkane
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it's true.. it's not like were telling a lie, everyone knows it!

Microsoft is a monster... a large company with monster assets able to stomp on anything in order to squelch it's cries. (Netscape, AOL [still in progress], Stacker, Norton, QDOS, DR-DOS, WordPerfect, Borland, IBM, etc.)
I'm not going further, everyone knows and I'm simply stating the obvious.

Even Microsoft people see it, I don't see why that required a "rant" (so to speak... )
Besides, with a topic such as Microsoft pulling a intellectual rights game with OpenGL, don't you think that is appropriate? (considering it's an Open Standard)
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's obviously trolling. Probably has nothing better to do than
browse linux forums looking for MS bashing to whine about.
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TripKnot wrote:
Actually MS purchased SGI which was a founder of OGL.


Negative. MS did not buy SGI, MS bought some OpenGL-related patents from SGI.
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abhishek
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luckiny they cant buy out linux. Thats prolly their least favorite part of it.
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FINITE
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Negative. MS did not buy SGI, MS bought some OpenGL-related patents from SGI.


Well then poo on SGI for selling these peices of code or patents. I would personally say take a hike MS.
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steblublu
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
He's obviously trolling. Probably has nothing better to do than
browse linux forums looking for MS bashing to whine about.


Actually, I'm not trolling. I use Gentoo on my laptop and my web server.

I am just tired of people repeating the same anti-microsoft mantra just because it's "in style" to do so. Apple users used to do this when they were trying to "build community". Intel sucks, they claimed. maybe Intel does, but I happen to love my 2.4ghz pentium. They can keep their slow motorolla's.

The reason microsoft has a "monopoly" is because they were the first, and yes, the ONLY operating system to offer something to the pc user. Much has been made of their bullying business tactics. But 99% of business operates this way. Apple, Sun, Oracle..etc. are not the choir boys of the industry. As a consultant, I have worked with most of them.

Yes, yes... Microsoft does have a monopoly. But this is not always a bad thing in industry. Take a look at what happened to the quality of service in the telecomm industry when Bell Telephone was split up...
- the baby Bell's have not been able to match the quality of service
- phone bills and operating costs have risen far beyond expectation
- the recent telecomm meltdown

What about Heinz? Their "Heinz Ketchup" has a strangle hold on the industry, yet I've never heard anyone complain that they are a monopoly. Johnson & Johnson? They have hundreds and hundreds of products on the market all of which they have paid to have displayed the most prominantly on market shelves - yet I've never heard anyone saying that they suck because they have a monopoly.

I remeber when they were having the Microsoft court battles, a few of the "witnesses" actually claimed that Microsoft had irreperably damaged the software industry. They stated that software prices in the past 10 years had not come down in price - like the price of hardware had.

Funny. 10 years ago the house I could buy for $100,000 now will cost me $180,000. It must be because Jimmy Carters "Habbitats" program! I think I'll sue.

Like it or not, unix and linux have up until now "chosen" to remain a hacker's OS. and of course, we have done little in the past 10 years to change this fact. After all, it was nice to have our own OS. One that we could call our own.

The other guy (Apple), has chosen to only offer a totally proprietary product (both software, OS and hardware) for the past 20 years (other than the little 2 year hiccup they had where other vendors were able to release clones).

So then I hear joe linux trash Microsoft because they are a "monopoly", and i hear them say that the Windows OS sucks. Funny, but these are the same guys who are running KDE or Gnome (both of which are striving to be Windows clones). He is also running Evolution (a blatant Outlook knockoff). KOffice, Star Office? very much trying to match MS Office functionality.

Why is Microsoft such a threat to Linux? The truth is, it isnt. never has been. Never will be. Linux's audience has never been Microsoft's. Untill now. And it's Microsoft who should feel threatened. Not the linux community.

Now that Linux seems to be moving into the mainstream, we will indeed see more people looking at linux as a platform for their home pc's.

The problem with this is that you will see KDE, Gnome and other clonish software become more bloated and unweildly. Open Source is great for small manageable projects - but Open Source's big problem is that if it wants to get a large project done correctly, it has to move slow. Take a look at how long it too for linux to get USB and PCMCIA support in a stable kernel. Freakin forever.

Does Microsoft suck? maybe. But take a look at your desktop and ask yourself how much it looks like a Microsoft product.

as for a few other remarks I noted:
kanuslupus wrote:

Oh, my mistake. I forgot the news bulletin announcing Microsoft had solved their .dll problems, inexplicable shutdowns and BSOD occurances.


- I guess you didn't get the memo. The DLL problem windows had in the past was just that -a "past" problem. Windows XP has done away with this problem. Yes, Win 98 had this problem, but that windows build is more than 5 years old. Should we do the same and comment on linux build 1.17?

kanuslupus wrote:

I'm guessing you don't pay your secretary to install Windows or security patches. I bet you don't pay her to repair the system after a vb virus wreaks havoc on her machine either.


- We have a firewall. Never had a virus problem to date. The insuation is that virii are running rampant on Window systems. I can honestly say that the last real virus I had was the "stoned" virus - that was back in 1989 or so. Linux/unix have security concerns as well. Every month I get another Sendmail security alert. And that's a program that has been around for 25 years! When linux becomes deployed on more home desktops, you will see a HUGE increase in the number of security alerts hitting linux. MS is a target because of their market share, as any widely deployed system would be.

cheers,
Steb
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aardvark
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well steb, to put some weight in the other side of the scale, I have to say that you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I agree with you pretty much. It's good that something gets said once in a while, by someone with 2 feet on the ground.!

It is however a bit disturbing that microsoft is putting its grip on yet another boat that might disturb their path. It looks a bit dangerous that Ms will have some pretty big influence on something that seems important to linux too. OpenGL is a nice technology, and the path to the 3d world for linux, on which it has already taken decent steps. (Quake III plays like a charm here, but that is just a game :))
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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steblublu wrote:
kanuslupus wrote:
He's obviously trolling. Probably has nothing better to do than
browse linux forums looking for MS bashing to whine about.


Actually, I'm not trolling. I use Gentoo on my laptop and my web server.
My response can be read here. Way off topic already.
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DArtagnan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They will try to get rights on eart even...*beep* them
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locking thread. (if you feel some overwhelming urge to continue this pissing contest, feel free to discuss it here)

--kurt
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